“Good architecture is great business. A lot of people talk about ‘location, location, location’. I disagree. It’s just one element. Architecture is, in many cases, more important than location”. - Donald Trump in the Chicago Tribune, October 31, 2004

I think we can agree that when Donald says good architecture, he means good design, and that it doesn’t stop at the property line or the curb, it is your whole experience.

Apple Valley Population -

Population (year 2000): 45,527.
Estimated population in July 2006: 50,109 (+10.1% change)

From City-Data.com

“With a healthy economy, excellent educational system and generous support for the arts from both residents and government funding, it’s no surprise Minnesota always ranks first or second on research publisher Morgan Quitno’s annual “Most Livable State” lists. With approximately 250 retail outlets selling books to its five million residents, the nation’s 21st most populous state scores a solid #13 on PW’s bookselling health index.”

Mn has 1 bookstore for every 20,700 residents. Northfield has 5 independent bookstores for fewer than 20,000 residents. not bad. Apple Valley has 2 bookstores, pop?

…are human interactions facilitated or limited?

Thanks for the link,

Ross

If you look past these pairings to how the buildings are arranged - Can you find your way around? Is there an organizational pattern that is readily understood? Can you get around without a car or only by car? What type of space is defined by the buildings - an outdoor room or randomness? Are multiple uses allowed or encouraged or discouraged?

I am providing a link to a report which is a compiliation of many studies that show that good design matters, and in fact can be counted statistically. I found it to be not only interesting, but confirming of my own professional biases

http://www.cabe.org.uk/default.aspx?contentitemid=483&field=sitesearch&term=the%20value%20of%20good%20design&type=0

Personally, I have no problem with NOT having a Chipolte, or a Red Lobster, or another Burger King, or a Starbucks in our wonderful town. Most of this food is probably grown in China as well.

Northfield is about the character, not about the cookie cutter amenities of AV. They can keep that in AV or Lakeville.

I would much rather jump on my bike, or walk down the path or sidewalk, and shop locally. The “imports” I want to buy is meat from Nerstrand, and sweet corn from the outlying farms.

I do have to confess that I am in the “commuter” group though. I do attempt to telecommute, and would love to see some sort of facility where you could have some cubes, a conference room, and multiple IP phones and a video conference facility, with administrative support such as copiers and printers. (of course, this would be high bandwidth) Users could pay a daily fee, and have a “remote office” in which to telecommute from. This would be nice close to downtown, or near one of the campuses. It would be nice to telecommute from a place that was far enough away from the house so that it is not a distraction, while still not having to make the 38 mile trip.

I do however, try to make the commute as low impact as possible. I vanpool with 9 others on a daily basis. It is much better in terms of comfort, the environment, and my wallet.

If anyone has any question why Northfield smokes AV on any given day, I invite them to go stand on the corner of HWY 77 and County Road 42. That will chang your mind in a heck of a hurry.

Money Magazine can keep touting AV all it wants. I know what Northfield is about… thats why I moved here.

Regards,
-John

AV is not better than Northfield, they are simply very different places. Apple Valley is larger scale, big stores and developments.
While some don’t care for cookie cutter housing, some people do
very much enjoy anonymity in their choice of living quarters.
Many people simply do not wish to mow lawn and maintain shrubs and bushes.

I enjoy the Barnes and Noble in AV, Bylerly’s, Bachmans’, Burlington’s, and a lot of B things…not you, Brendon.
I don’t like the Bakers’ Square there, although I have liked that restaurant in other locations…not all chain stores are alike…they are run by individual people and each one shows it’s particular manager’s and staff’s competency. I don’t go to Krispy Kreme or Kohls, or any other K place. I usually buy art supplies at Michael’s and that rocks.
Except in rare instances, the people of AV have been friendly and helpful, the prices are good.

The reason I like the big stores is because I can walk around and explore mostly unnoticed (I ignore any camera eyes in this) and I can sit and look at a book or envision how some fabric may look without that ever present eye I feel in smaller stores. Plus, there is simply more to peruse. You can easily spend an hour
in a big store just casually looking around. That, plus I have heard that people actually get their daily exercise in the big stores.

I go to Northfield for a particular item, like the special dark rye bread at Just Foods, and maybe some talc free powder for a friend’s
birthday present. And while I will buy some beads at one of the
big chain stores, the specialized beads will be purchased in Northfield. When I want music cds, I head for Target or Amazon.com…there is little in the way of cds here…Ive already got the St. Olaf Choir cds at RCB.

As a result, I think the area is great, Northfield is limited,
but easily balanced out by surrounding areas, and if it ain’t
broke, don’t fix it. There’s plenty for every taste and temperament.

This is a nice town, but there are a lot of nice towns. Being competitive doesn’t mean other towns have to be worse, but that we have to have something that sets us apart, makes us interesting. People don’t need us to be the best at everything, any more they need to rank their kids in order of importance.
If people here can name some towns they think are in our league, or might be models, I’d be happy to split up the list, take my share and do some research and road trips and report back. It’s time to quit talking about what might work here and see what does work somewhere else (and how we can put our own twist on it.)
Shall we start with New Prague, Hastings, Red Wing, somewhere else? I’ll take the first one.

Positives (not much new here I suppose): The educational, cultural and recreational opportunities available. The friendliness of the citizens. The amount of community involvement displayed by the citizens. The river area. The progressive political environment.

Neutral: Main Street. (It is attractive …but so are plenty of other rural downtowns.) Architecture (ok, but basically uninteresting…both the old and the new). Neighborhoods. (Am I missing something…does the whole town look kind of the same?)

Negative: Lack of a good local restaurant. A seeming lack of diversity among the powers (commercial and political) that be. The malt o’ meal smell (ok…it’s not that bad…sort of sweet and cerealy…but I guess I prefer just a plain old natural smell). Smugness about how ’special’ it is here.

Overall…A real nice small town close to a great urban area…but subtract the colleges…New Prague.

Could that be considered a base number that would certainly come to Northfield to eat at a charming , independent restaurant?

Wherever you reside, if you like to eat at “chain” restaurants, obviously you will go to the one closest to you.

Neither of these are national chains; the Creamery an outpost of the St. Paul Grand Ave. ice cream shop, and the Green Mill’s original shop at Grand and Hamline in St. Paul.

In other words, it doesn’t have to be Appleby’s/Chillis/Red Lobester/etc. Maybe the marketing folks at the Crossing are barking up the wrong (national chain?) trees?

And how if Calhoun Square can’t “make it” , in a demographic that draws Uptown, Linden Hills, etc., etc., then how can Northfield retail be more successful? (Please don’t say “niche markets”, cause how could we be more “niche-y”? )

And since we have lost a lot of retail in the thirteen years I’ve been in NF, How can the Chamber correct that situation, and if they could( and I don’t believe they can) why haven’t they done so?

I just see it as a huge sea change in the way people shop, and I don’t see how the Chamber can totally change a societal shift, any more than the good individual retailers can. You have to be a bit careful making promises for the Chamber that they can’t , or haven’t fulfilled, and probably shouldn’t be expected to fulfill.

And how if Calhoun Square can’t “make it” , in a demographic that draws Uptown, Linden Hills, etc., etc., then how can Northfield retail be more successful? (Please don’t say “niche markets”, cause how could we be more “niche-y”? )

And since we have lost a lot of retail in the thirteen years I’ve been in NF, How can the Chamber correct that situation, and if they could( and I don’t believe they can) why haven’t they done so?

I just see it as a huge sea change in the way people shop, and I don’t see how the Chamber can totally change a societal shift, any more than the good individual retailers can. You have to be a bit careful making promises for the Chamber that they can’t , or haven’t fulfilled, and probably shouldn’t be expected to fulfill.

Many major colleges are boycotting the big “Best Colleges” ratings for the same reasons, basically that colleges and universities are too varied to compare in a meaningful way. There are analysts from some of the large leasing and real estate firms who could share their regional evaluation criteria.

I don’t have a personal view about the perfect population or workforce or household income. And I hate to say this goes back to another discussion about numbers, but getting meaningful criteria and tracking the data matters. David, I’d be happy to help with researching which facts are relevant. I do think the small towns book has potential, though I haven’t read it.

Finally, David, you mentioned that Ross and I have a different take on the Money criteria. I’m shocked (LOL). He saw the trees and safe streets, which are similar. I was looking for the things that make them different (not better or worse but different).

Money has an upscale corporate metro reader base. They’d like to go to a B&B in Northfield but probably wouldn’t choose Northfield over AV. Their idea of small town life runs toward Wayzata and Excelsior.

As for what would draw people to Northfield, the first thing you have to decide is who will be let in. There seems to be a strong faction that believes about half the people here should leave — but should come back to shopt and eat. seems smart to interview the employees at the major companies to see where they live and why. Are housing costs too high? Do we need more jobs or more housing, or do we just need to get a lot of affluent suburtan people to come here and shop and go home so we can make fun of them behind their backs? (JOKE) Maybe we just need a sense of humor so people will want to hang out with us.

I’m not being facetious, I’d really like to understand your line of reasoning. What exactly do you think the Chamber can do?

For example, in a town whose population consists of more than 25% college students, isn’t it obvious that that fact will skew both averages and medians, whether you’re talking about age or income? Numbers simply don’t tell the whole story, so making a whole story out of numbers is almost meaningless.

Well and regardless, is my quality of life better as a town citizen because the house next door pulls in $90,000 instead of $53,000? I mean as long as the town isn’t in utter poverty, I don’t see how it makes a difference. Less money to waste on junk at Target.