Outgoing Chamber president David Ludescher: frustrated but hopeful; me, too.
Apr.5 2008 at 08:39 by Griff Wigley
Northfield News managing editor Jaci Smith blogged earlier this week about outgoing Chamber of Commerce president David Ludescher’s speech at the annual Chamber dinner a few weeks ago.
(I wasn’t there. The photo of David is from a comp plan meeting last year.)
Jaci wrote:
So, what did Ludescher say that was so outrageous? That Northfield isn’t the most business-friendly place in the world. That not nearly enough local businesses support the Chamber, and that the community believes erroneously that the Chamber exists to serve the whole community, not just the Chamber’s members. That even city leaders neglect to think about business in their plans. He made his point with several comments that could be — and were by some — construed as sharp, such as:
- saying that if parents thought an after-prom party was such a great idea they should pay for it themselves instead of asking the Chamber to foot the bill;
- accusing those who weren’t Chamber members of “milking the Chamber cow” while refusing to join the organization;
- saying that it was ironic that the city’s transportation task force has a member who represents the interests of those who bike but no one who represents the interests of the trucking industry.
David has a guest column in today’s paper titled: Business needs bigger role.
During 2007, nearly every outside observer who commented on the Northfield business climate said that Northfield is a difficult place to do business. As the only organization solely dedicated to improving the business climate in the Northfield area, the Chamber needs to demand to be a participant in important decisions… In perspective, 2007 was, in many ways, a frustrating and disappointing year for me personally, because I had sought to accomplish so much more. The message I leave with you is that 2008, and the years to come, are filled with hope. 2007 has taught me that the Chamber has a difficult, but nevertheless sure and certain mission, in which we can place our hope.
I’m not a member of the Chamber, even though I’ve been operating a sole proprietorship business here in Northfield for 8 years. No one has ever asked me to join, explaining what the benefits would be for someone with my type of business, or how my membership would benefit the overall community.
Plus, there some things that bug me about the Chamber that, as I think about it, have contributed to my lack of interest in joining:
- In the 13+ years that I and my colleagues have spent creating and maintaining a vibrant online culture here, one that includes businesses, no one from the Chamber has ever publicly or privately acknowledged it that I know of.
- In the 13+ years that I’ve moderated online discussions here in Northfield, Chamber President Kathy Feldbrugge has virtually never participated.
- I’ve attended many Chamber events over the years and taken hundreds of photos for both Northfield.org and now Locally Grown. I’ve blogged about dozens and dozens of Chamber business members over the years. No one from the Chamber has ever thanked me.
- The Chamber’s web site has always sucked. There’s never any news on their news page. If there was, there’s no RSS feed to subscribe to it. There are few photos on the site, and not one photo of a person. Not one. No board member photos, no staff photos, no member photos. There’s no mention of the most vibrant, geographically-based blogosphere in the country. Other than their community calendar, the Chamber site is a dead brochure.
Likewise, the Chamber’s Convention and Visitor Bureau website. Why not feature the Northfield Entertainment Guide (NEG) there? It’s the best thing going to show visitors the vibrancy of the town’s happenings. Why not grab the RSS feeds from ArtOrg, the NAG, Northfield.org, and many other organizations in town and display the feed headlines in the sidebars to show visitors what’s happening?
In short, the Chamber’s websites are 1999 vintage in a town that’s as Web 2.0-savvy as any in the country.
This past year, I’ve really appreciated David Ludescher’s willingness to engage in public online discussion of issues, both business-related and otherwise. His participation has been a breath of fresh air, even though I disagree with him sometimes. Will the new Chamber president, Jeff Hasse, and other board members do likewise? I hope so.
(We’ve said it many times here and we say it on our About page: “Many newspapers publish editorials where the senior editorial staff collectively author opinion pieces. We don’t do that. The opinions we express are specific to each of us, not a collective “Locally Grown” voice. Expect to see us disagreeing with one another.” So the views above about the Chamber are entirely my own. I have no idea to what extent Ross and Tracy agree or disagree, nor have they seen this blog post before any one else.)
Posted in Businesses, Government, Non-Profits & Civic Orgs
Ross Currier April 5, 2008 8:42 am
Hey Griff -
You make some good points here. I know that there are a number of Chamber Board members who would be very interested in and open to them. In fact, let me introduce you to Jeff Hasse. He is an energized and activist leader and I, personally, have great expectations of him.
- Ross
#1
Anne Bretts April 5, 2008 8:42 am
Griff, you make some good points. Here’s a little annoyance…My daughter likes to buy gift certificates for us to use in town. She calls the chamber…and has to mail a check and wait to have them mail the chamber dollars, which she has to mail to me, a process that can take several days. That’s no way to buy online or over the phone, so lots of last-minute sales are lost. And this has happened two years in a row, so they have had no interest in grabbing this opportunity.
Yes, the website is horrid and the lack of real online shopping specials and other promotions seems a waste.
I think the chamber could do so much more to make it a vibrant, exciting center of business leadership in this town. We can join in hope that it will move in that direction this year.
#2
Adam Elg April 5, 2008 1:58 pm
Griff,
Thank you for your comments. In the seven years as a business owner in Northfield, and even heavily involved in the Chamber, I observed many of the same scenarios you describe.
In my estimation and in my observation of the Chamber, It has always focused on supporting big business and the positions and interests of big business in Northield. Not main street business owners or sole proprietors.
Early years of development of the NDDC were hampered as a result of stonewalling, lack of cooperation, and territorial game playing by Chamber leadership. (Harsh huh? Well that’s what it looked like to me)
Frankly, the Chamber should quit trying to get struggling downtown business owners to anti up and join and rather focus their energy and resources focusing on working with the city and the EDA or Enterprise Center to make Nortfield easier to work with for big companies.
Leave downtown to the NDDC and quit stonewalling the NDDC from becoming an organization with contributing members. (Maybe the NDDC isn’t interested in a paying membership base but I think should, and always should have been so).
I’m sorry that David Ludescher didn’t accomplish what he had hoped to however it really is no surprise to me. I suggest that the next President of the Chamber look more deeply within the organization and complain less about outside forces such as the city of Northfield and business that don’t desire to join.
#3
Jerry Bilek April 5, 2008 2:35 pm
Griff,
great points. David has some valid points as well in his comments and criticism. for example, I agree transportation task force should have representation from both bikers and truckers.
I am one who “milks the chamber cow,” I have not joined. I am not opposed to joining organizations I believe in. I have joined the American Booksellers Assoc.(ABA), the Midwest Booksellers Assoc(MBA) and I give to the NDDC. All of these organizations have worked on my behalf to make my business better. Quite frankly, I don’t believe the Chamber represents my viewpoints. Crazy days and Winter Walk are it as far as I can tell.
I was asked to join, got my letter in the mail. No discussion about benefits, just a letter.
Yes, the website is a model T. If the website really showed off what Northfield has to offer it might be worth joining. It could use a marketing element to it. Anne mentioned some really great ideas. Maybe if the Chamber recruited a blog coach into it’s membership, things would improve(nudge, nudge, wink, wink). Chamber gift cards?
#4
Paul Fried April 5, 2008 5:04 pm
My wife operates a small business, and when I’ve taught private guitar lessons, we checked into membership details. The costs are simply prohibitive, and are not structured to allow more businesses easy entry, and then participation that might lead to more cooperation and a higher level of membership, if needed.
It could be a great form of outreach if, when they have their annual awards, they would try to recognize and award non-member businesses for some of the great things they accomplish and innovate, and perhaps offer free trial memberships along with the awards.
Instead, awards are restricted to members only, and some of them might be seen as dubious by broader members of the community. Many go to contractors, some of whom may deserve awards, others who may simply be getting a turn (I live in a home that was poorly constructed during the housing boom in the late ’70’s, and the construction company that built my home is still in business, still a member of the chamber; do you award a business that does or did shoddy work? How much does a business have to improve to overcome a bad reputation to deserve an award, or is financial success the sole criteria?)….
When David was Chamber VP and about to become Pres., his then-law partner, Tom Neuville, received the businessman of the year award (I think that’s what the award was called — correct me if I’m wrong).
Most organizations would, or should, have some restriction that those who receive awards should not be partners of sitting executive board members, but it was right after the election when Tom won by one of his slimmest margins ever, and lost in Northfield, so it was a nice way to boost his ratings before he moved on to the judiciary, but the kind if move that, rightly, would make many non-member businesses (especially non-business owners who are not partisan Republicans) think that the Chamber was acting, if only temporarily, like a front-organization for the Republican party.
Even if their bylaws allowed it at the time, this is not the way to attract new members in a DFL-leaning town. This is a “wake up and smell the coffee” kind if issue: You just don’t act that way and then complain about low membership. Even if Tom’s votes were consistently in line with the voting recommendation of the national chambers, there could have been a better way to recognize Tom for his work, and not have it unfold that way, while his partner, David, was VP and becoming Pres.
I suspect they could be much more successful attracting new members if they did some careful outreach, asking non-member businesses: Are our membership fees too high? What kind of fees would be affordable, and what kinds of services would you like to see in return?
If they lowered their membership rates but boosted their membership, even if they broke even the first year, having more members might eventually lead to more successes.
But that may sound too inclusive, and would require some serious thinking outside the box. Maybe the Chamber is content being small, like a country-club, where people of the same political persuasion can mingle with more of same at the banquet, and not have to feel they’re slumming. Then you can still pretend you’re persecuted and blame other businesses for avoiding you, if you want to maintain your persecution conplex. If those are the goals, the Chamber is doing fine and should stay the course. You reap what you sow.
#5
Adam Elg April 5, 2008 7:11 pm
THANK YOU PAUL! AWSOME!
#6
Jane McWilliams April 5, 2008 10:22 pm
My beef is with the Convention and Visitors Bureau which, I believe, is funded with a lodging tax, and which doesn’t seem to have any public oversight.
Several times recently, while waiting for the train, I’ve prowled in the visitors center in the RedWing train station. It is an attractive room, with floor to ceiling information not only about RedWing, but many, many cities and other Minnesota destinations, NOT including Northfield. The staff there didn’t have a clue as to why Northfield wasn’t filling their shelves. On one occasion, I called the Chamber office and was told they were just publishing a new Northfield Guide . . . which I subsequently did not see in RedWing. I wonder how many other similar places in the state we don’t have any visibility?
Where does the tax money go?
#7
Paul Fried April 5, 2008 10:52 pm
Adam: Thanks for the feedback, but as I don’t know you personally , I’m curious:
are you
A) a member of the Chamber’s executive board, grateful for the feedback, or
B) a local business owner who, at times, has felt as I do, or
C) none of the above, but an outsider who feels his hunches confirmed, or
or… ?
What was it that struck the nerve?
#8
Paul Fried April 5, 2008 11:05 pm
Oops, Adam, I read your good comments earlier in the thread but didn’t remember your name, so to get such compliments in all caps, I thought, Who is this guy? I’m surprised at your enthusiasm at my observations, as I figure I’m more an academic type and outsider to Nfld business establishment, but thanks. You describe yourself as having been at times very involved with the chamber. Any other thoughts on how to improve things? I have little to say on this topic, but am interested in what the insiders think.
#9
David Ludescher April 6, 2008 4:17 pm
First, Griff - Thank you on behalf of the Chamber over the last year. Even though you may not be a supporter of the Chamber, I have appreciated the opportunity to have this forum. I have always considered your comments to be fair.
Let me address your issues.
1. First, my remarks were made at the Chamber banquet for Chamber members. Hence, the remarks were not intended to be inclusive.
2. Regarding how you have been treated individually by the Chamber is worthy of some individual, non-blog attention. Let’s talk off-line.
3. Regarding the blogosphere, the short answer is - so? In my years on the board, no one has ever mentioned that the blogosphere should be a priority. Perhaps we need some education by you. Why don’t you stop by the office and see if you can sell us on your services? Obviously, you believe it has value; convince us (the Chamber).
4. While you are at it, talk to Jeff Hasse about the Convention and Visitors Bureau. Sounds like you have some great ideas that fit even better into the CVB’s mission than the Chamber’s mission.
5. I doubt that other board members will be posting. I have discouraged Kathy from doing so. While I appreciate your compliment that I have been a breath of fresh air, I am not convinced that your opinion represents a majority. If the comments don’t further the Chamber’s mission, then we shouldn’t participate.
Lastly, I had intended my message to be one of hope, not lament - a vision that the Chamber will always be needed because a healthy business environment is a core need of the community. It is not easy in a town with so many diverse opinions, and such strong wills to sell the Chamber.
#10
David Ludescher April 6, 2008 8:10 pm
In response to some of the other posts:
1. Tom Neuville received the businessperson of the year award for his dedicated service, especially working for businesses. For 17 years, Tom gave tirelessly and selflessly of himself, and our office helped support him. At the time of his retirement, he was working on a bill with some downtown businesspeople to keep property taxes low and affordable.
2. The NDDC was birthed out of the Chamber. Being a broad based organization, the Chamber could not politically or economically afford to focus its efforts on just the downtown. Presently, the NDDC and the Chamber have a cordial, yet competitive and cooperative relationship. Many businesses are supportive of both organizations. The executive directors and the boards continue to meet on an irregular basis to discuss joint efforts, and avoid direct competition for the same dollars.
(The NDDC is a Chamber member.)
3. The Chamber talked about lower “entry” fees. We decided against it. We calculated that $275 was as low as we could go. For a business that takes advantage of the Chamber, you can receive well in excess of $275. (Just the picture in the paper is worth more.)
4. The website and other electronic services are not state of the art. But, just like any other business, we need to make sure that the value outweighs the costs, and that a website focus doesn’t hurt our other services.
5. We have stayed away from asking for public resources, even for events enjoyed by the town, like Crazy Daze and Winter Walk. Philosophically, the Chamber would not be a business organization if it were not self-supporting. So, Jerry, kick in the money for the Chamber events that you like. You could pay for the milk that you use. We accept donations.
6. The Chamber doesn’t have a persecution complex. Business is business. We need to invigorate our members so that they can help sell the value of membership, and the need for a strong business prescence. You can’t sell anything by whining and complaining.
Hopefully, the Chamber can reposition itself to be a player in the decision-making process, and others will agree that it should be. It just astounds me that Northfield can do things like spend 18 months and $30,000 in attorneys feees to get a 34 page rental ordinace that is probably unconstitutional, when Northfield has other problems like businesses seeing 20% tax increases, Malt-O-Meal and College City Beverage building outside Northfield, and increasing residential taxation dependence.
#11
Jerry Bilek April 6, 2008 10:50 pm
David,
Thank you for your follow up comments. I agree it would be wise to talk with Griff about the power of the internet and blogs. Anne makes some good points as well about what the web could offer chamber members.
I assess chamber membership like any business expense. Is it worth the investment. right now, I don’t think so. I pushed the Midwest Booksellers assoc(MBA) to make some changes a couple of years ago. I saw what other regional bookselling organizations were doing and asked why we could not do the same thing. To their credit MBA rolled out a marketing program that has really helped small retailers like myself. I fully support it, I feel I have to.
Is it better to wait for change then join or join and affect change?
#12
Paul Fried April 6, 2008 11:30 pm
David: I don’t doubt that Tom deserved recognition for the kinds of things you say, but I only commented about the perception created when he received the award while you were moving from VP to Pres., and the fact that much of what was said when he received the award (and what you say above) sounds like they should have recognized him, not as businessperson of the year, but given him a special award as a legislator-friend of business.
Jaci’s editorial brings up some strange issues:
“That Northfield isn’t the most business-friendly place in the world. That not nearly enough local businesses support the Chamber, and that the community believes erroneously that the Chamber exists to serve the whole community, not just the Chamber’s members. That even city leaders neglect to think about business in their plans. ”
David, it seems the Chamber wants it both ways: They want to speak for business and to the issue of the “not the most friendly” climate, but out of the other side of the Chamber’s mouth, then claim that people have the wrong perception that the Chamber is meant to serve more than it’s members. Then the complaints about not enough members….
I hear an awful lot of switching gears here. If the sincere goal of the Chamber is to broaden its membership, then it would seem that should start acting more as if it’s willing to serve the business community, members or not, so as to gain credibility and attract interest. That’s what businesses that lack customers have to do: they have loss-leaders, sales, special deals, drawings, free memberships, trial memberships, etc.
As far as entry level membership goes, you’re still thinking inside the box. Maybe some new members don’t want a picture in the paper, and maybe the entry-level services (a listing via the Chamber so-very-1999 web site?) would not cost you much to offer. It depends on how you package what a person gets at a given level.
If you say the Chamber is not meant to serve local businesses but only its members, then don’t call it “business of the year” award. Call it “Chamber-member business of the year” award.
And inasmuch as some businesses (like Griff’s) do a great service to many locally, and whose value stretches beyond specific customers and chamber members, having the Chamber give some awards and free memberships to certain businesses for their contributions — to the Chamber as non-members, and to the general business climate — might be in order. If they find something worth renewing their membership for, then great. If not, then you’d have to ask: What is it you’re not offering businesses that keeps them from being interested?
If you actually had a really easy entry level with few perks, then you might have a group of those businesses (many, perhaps start-ups), and some new businesses might bring in the new blood and new ideas you seem to need.
The Franciscans and some other orders have a tradition that, in the monestary, they let the youngest, new recruits speak first. I’ve been told that the purpose is to encourage new ideas, so the veteran monks and their ideas don’t dominate the discussions. They find ways to build it into their system to be challenged to think outside the box.
Maybe the Chamber isn’t interested in such nonsense. Maybe they’re satisfied having things run the way they’re used to them, and just want others to see the great wisdom of their established methods, and come over to their way of seeing things, and join, more than they want to make much effort in outreach and adapting in substantial ways to as to attract new members, with their varied interests.
So maybe many prospective businesses are not interested in that kind of Chamber.
#13
Britt Ackerman April 7, 2008 11:35 am
A friend of mine owns a small business in Northfield, and is not a member of the Chamber. This friend was warned by a Chamber member that their business would be blacklisted if they didn’t join the Chamber. If this is true, I’m disturbed at the thought that the Chamber would encourage its members not to patronize non-Chamber businesses. Such conduct does not seem to be in the Chamber’s best interests. If I were a business owner, I would react very badly to such nefarious conduct. I’d basically say “F you then”, and I’d cut a check to the NDDC.
The Chamber’s website sucks, but several member businesses have great websites. At least as far as the service industry goes, the Rueb, Froggy’s, and the Contented Cow all have great websites. The Chamber website could be a great marketing tool and could promote tourism if it operated as a gateway to our local service industries. If you Google “northfield tourism” you get a Chamber hit 7 pages down, but it’s not the main page of the Chamber website.
On the other hand, I agree with David L. that the Chamber has quite a difficult task in encouraging the development and expansion of more industrial business zones. His comment really resonates with me. If the Chamber can succeed in increasing industrial development, then they’re worth every penny, in my mind.
On a tangent…I’m not sure why sponsorship of the After Prom party by area businesses is such a sore spot. Although it’s been a few years since my proms, (just a few years, I swear) and my proms were in rural Nebraska, our Post Prom parties were always sponsored by local businesses. We had great prizes, and fun games that were run by volunteer parents. Local pizza places donated food and there were gift certificates and cash prizes as well. Us kids patronized local businesses as much as our parents did, and the largest donors were the businesses most patronized by the kids. Our post prom parties were so fun that everyone went. It was actually more fun than driving around and getting stoned and/or drunk and then having reckless unprotected sex, believe it or not. Our local businesses who supported the post prom parties got great press for their generosity, and received personal thank you notes from the prom organizers. Prom is just one of those events that the whole community can take part in to ensure the safety of our kids at the same time we try to help them have memorable experiences.
#14
Britt Ackerman April 7, 2008 11:36 am
UGH, Griff, I need an HTML tutorial from you. Will you pretty please fix that last post for me so I’m not misquoting David L.?
#15
Griff Wigley April 7, 2008 11:51 am
Britt, I removed the errant blockquote tags but I don’t see any of David’s words in your comment that need to be placed inside them. Email me with a fix, if it’s not how you intended it.
#16
Adam Elg April 7, 2008 7:42 pm
David Fried,
I’d love to say more but am no longer a resident. I spent nine years heavily involved in downtown Northfield and was a driving force in the development of the NDDC. My experience was that downtown retail was underserved by the Chamber and getting things accomplished through the Chamber was difficult and slow. It took years to get the Chamber to help facilitate getting hanging flower baskets on Division Street. Thank goodness for the Garden Club. They stepped up to the plate to help. This scenario was one among many where instead of finding or working toward a solution, the message from the ED or board was “No, it can’t be done” or “We’ve tried this before and it didn’t work”. I’m sure much of that was often a result of money concerns and questions of where the money will come from.
I guess if all downtown business owners were members thing could happen easier and/or more quickly. However, I don’t think deeper Chamber pockets would have changed things much.
I know much of the challenge for the Chamber working with downtown business owners was that for the most part, downtown retailers at the time seemed to each have their own agenda and not really a shared vision of what downtown could become. I think that still exists to some degree. After all, they are all independent business owners.
I don’t think however the Chamber was or is the organization to facilitate and lead a shared vision for downtown. Thus the NDDC came to into existence.
I think the Chamber has a place, as I mentioned in my previous post. I just think they cannot effectively drive a downtown agenda. The ED said on many occasions, the Chamber represents all member businesses in Northfield and that includes industry, service and retail, both downtown and on Hwy 3.
Obviously each business owner has to make a decision as to how to spend money and what organizations to join. For downtown business owners I think the NDDC makes a lot of sense to support. I know the NDDC is not a member organization, but consider helping them out. (I’m sure that will pi$$ a few people off) Sorry
I’ve said to much
#17
David Ludescher April 7, 2008 8:08 pm
Jerry: You made one of my points - you take advantage of Winter Walk, and Crazy Daze, but don’t pay anything. So, if one of your neighbors is a Chamber member, it is paying its share and your share. Over time, that member gets mad at the Chamber for letting you “milk the cow”. So, if we want to have those events, we need our members to come in and encourage you to do your fair share, as well as selling you on the benefits.
Paul: The Chamber’s first obligation is to its members. None of the board is particularly interested in giving someone else a deal that he, she, or it cannot get himself, herself or itself. It is indeed a telling commentary that the Chamber recognized Tom for his political contributions to area businesses. The Chamber needs to have more involved people like Tom and Ray Cox if the Chamber’s message is to heard.
Britt: I did encourage members to patronize other Chamber members first, and I used attorneys as an example. Do you recall a couple of years ago when the school board had the levy referendum? Alan Marks wrote a piece about how his company never even had the opportunity to bid on the printing of the levy materials. His business was being asked to pay the extra costs of the levy without the opportunity to even bid on the work. So, if your lawyer is charging $200.00 per hour, and is not putting any of it back into the betterment of the business community …
Regarding the After Prom party, I brought it up as an example of an entitlement mentality regarding businesses. If parents don’t want to pay for their children’s fun activities, why would they think that I want to pay for it? Why would I want my taxes to go up to pay for a skateboard park, especially if I have to pay once at home, and three times at the office (i.e. property taxes)?
#18
kiffi summa April 7, 2008 9:20 pm
Wait a minute, wait a minute…David: I can’t believe what you said to Jerry, post # 18!
Are you saying that he should close on WinterWalk and Crazy Daze because he’s “milking the cow” and “not paying his share”?
How would that benefit the Chamber? Have some businesses close because they’re not Chamber members? Would the Chamber be benefitted if they put up signs in their windows saying they had not participated because they didn’t want to be accused of “milking the cow”. Or should they just not be open and have people wonder why ; that would get around quickly, that only Chamber members were welcome to participate.
I think the Chamber needs to prove their worth to retailers, and then understand if some of those retailers margins don’t allow them to join; then take the further step of working in every way possible to create a supportive business climate. Sounds like your philosophy is the exact opposite of what it should be to fulfill the mission.
I hope you’ll say you didn’t mean your statement the way it sounded.
#19
David Ludescher April 8, 2008 9:06 am
Adam: Your point is well-taken. Actually, I don’t think that you said enough. In my opinion, you and I are sharing some of the same frustrations, presently from opposite sides of the fence. But, I am hopeful, and I think you and everyone else should be too.
I was involved from the inception, from the NDDC side of the fence. I think that it was an invitation from Brett Reese that initially got me involved. I eventually drifted away when the NDDC focus began to stray from an economic focus to a cultural and historical focus.
Nevertheless, at the NDDC’s inception, it was clear that the Chamber could not serve the downtown members with all of the services they needed and wanted. In addition, as the focus went to cultural and historical issues - issues which the Chamber viewed as a tangential result, not a deliberate goal, the synergy between the organizations evaporated.
The last several years have really seen some great progress with the organizations trying to complement each other without duplicating efforts, or alienating business owners. Robert Bierman and now Mary Rossing have served on both boards at the same time; we have had numerous joint board meetings to share ideas; we worked together on retail strategies; and the executive directors meet to share plans.
In my opinion, the NDDC has matured in its expectations and practicalities. I have visions that the NDDC will come to live out the promise of its name - a downtown development corporation.
Many thanks Adam for your work, and the others who followed you, most recently Ross. Also, many thanks to Brett, Jim Braucher, Keith Covey, and Bardwell Smith for their efforts, and all who followed them.
I know that the NDDC has also been frustrated - with the Chamber, the City, and many of the downtown business people. Both organizations plow ahead with their separate missions knowing that what they do is good work, and hoping that we show good results. We take your criticisms, as does any business, as an opportunity to better serve our customers.
#20
Paul Fried April 8, 2008 9:56 am
Kiffi: Interesting (but sad) litmus test, if non-Chamber members were to boycott Chamber events like Winterwalk: They could not be accused of milking the cow, but the effect on the Chamber events (which, David reminds us, are for the benefit of Chamber members and not non-members) would be devastating.
Some might argue that the Chamber indirectly benefits all business and residential Northfield, so all should step up to the plate and pay whatever membership fees the Chamber asks, so that the Chamber, in other words, does not need to change at all, but it’s the rest of us at fault who should simply conform to the Chamber. This is the kind of circular logic that a good laywer would try to expose in the reasoning of an opposing lawyer in a courtroom, but would not want to have exposed in his own reasoning.
It also sounds like a state of denial: The problem is not that a guy beats his wife, but that the wife should stop doing that stuff that ticks the guy off?
It’s a vicious circle: David, you say the Chamber is really interested in recruiting more members. Fine, so make the changes necessary to do the recruiting. Do the market research and find out what kind of membership fees and benefits would work.
Then, David, you clarify: Well, our first priority is serving the interests of our members (not expanding membership, or attracting just any member who says they can’t afford the fees, not serving all businesses, or handing out freebees, or more generous and agressive marketing of your memberships).
So the top priority is clearly serving the status quo, not seeking new members. Sounds just a little conflicted, but at least you’re clear about Chamber priorities.
Is this what happens with all Chambers of Commerce? Do they all have high membership fees and sometimes appear to be, with perhaps a few member exceptions, a front organization for a particular political party, insisting that pilgrims come to the mountain, instead of moving the mountain closer to the pilgrims? (Faith only moves mountains in the realm of faith, not commerce?)
Do other Chambers, in other cities, sometimes co-exist and cooperate more fruitfully with a variety of other business- and government-organizations? Are there other models of cooperation that our Chamber and NDDC might learn from, and which people in the Chamber or NDDC might research with a few emails or phone calls to nearby cities or the national Chamber group? (”Hey you, over there in Stillwater or Red Wing: Tell me your success stories of times your Chamber cooperated best with other local organizations, and what personal or group qualities were needed to make it happen?”)
If Adam still lived here and made calls or queries like that, and then reported back to the NDDC and Chamber, would people here actually perk up and bring about some practical changes, and be energzed by ideas for cooperation? Or are factions in both groups sometimes too mired in their own habits, unable to think outside the box and work toward practical solutions?
#21
Paul Fried April 8, 2008 10:08 am
David: Thanks for confirming my point that Tom deserved a Chamber award for pro-Chamber work primarily as a legislator, not as an area business.
#22
David Schlosser April 8, 2008 10:39 am
Here’s a little personal annoyance about the Chamber, though I am a bit late on this post…
The 3 stores that I work with as Director (River City Books, Carleton/St. Olaf Bookstore) are all members of the Chamber, either individually (RCB) or through the colleges (Carleton/St. Olaf). I have been a member of the Retail Committee of the Chamber since 2002, and was chair for one year.
I have continually pushed for more events…whether downtown or throughout the community. The Retail Committee currently hosts/organizes two annual events: Winter Walk and Ladies Nite Out. It also organizes and supports retail strategy meetings and training sessions.
What’s frustrating? The Retail Committee’s annual budget is ZERO DOLLARS. Always has been. No money is set aside for what I feel is an important committee. Merchants continually ask why we ask for extra money beyond the Chamber dues to support WW. There’s the answer. The RC has never, ever had any budgeted money to support its goals.
Personally, I think asking a committee to organize, set up, and support events with no financial support is a bit ridiculous.
This is why, going forward, I think the NDDC will (and has) taken on more of the role of organizing events that bring customers downtown. It’s tough for a Retail Committee to support events with no financial support!
#23
Paul Fried April 8, 2008 11:40 am
David S: That’s very interesting to learn. If David L’s talk about non-members “milking the cow” is to hold water, one would think (and I had assumed) that membership fees go, in part, to support retail events. If the retail events are organized on a volunteer basis, then it’s hard to argue that non-members are milking any Chamber cow. They’re just benefitting from the volunteer work of people, some of whom happen to be Chamber members, it would seem (correct me if I’m wrong, but are there absolutely no non-members who help with Winterwalk, etc.?)…
I suppose we might hear the argument that the office of the Chamber and its paid staff thinks up the retail events, but because there are so few members, volunteers are needed to pull off the events. But this seems a bit dysfunctional.
#24
Jerry Bilek April 8, 2008 12:05 pm
I think what David L. is saying is that non-member businesses like mine should pay the $50 to help underwrite the costs of Winter Walk. I don’t have a problem with that.
#25
David Schlosser April 8, 2008 12:44 pm
I forgot to include Crazy Days. That makes three annual retail events sponsored by the Chamber Retail Committee. Sorry.
#26
David Ludescher April 8, 2008 7:50 pm
Jerry: Do you have a good answer for David S.? Why should Chamber members have to pony up additional monies for Winter Walk, Crazy Daze and others, when you don’t pay anything? Why should the Chamber fund the Retail Committee?
#27
David Henson April 8, 2008 8:11 pm
Jerry always has a good answer - he owns a book store ! Might want to take that bike helmet off and make it a combat helmet.
#28
Patrick Enders April 8, 2008 8:32 pm
David L,
If I’m following things correctly, David S’s post (#23) suggested that:
and therefore he suggested that Chamber members don’t pony up any additional monies for supporting these events.
#29
Jerry Bilek April 8, 2008 9:10 pm
David L.,
you lost me. I think David S. criticism is of the Chamber. Maybe I’m reading it incorrectly. It sounds more like the retail members of the chamber pay dues which are not spent on retail events. Is that correct David?
I’ve never been asked to pay a dime for crazy days. I gave Girls night out a $50 GC as my sponsorship. WW I’ll give next year, I did say I don’t have a problem with that. My first year I was too unorganized to send in any info and a check to the chamber. I followed most of their suggestions. Last year looking for $50 was a tall order. It is the equivalent to 10% of sales and a much higher % of profits.
The chamber can fund or not fund the retail committee. it’s really not my problem. remember I’m not a member. Your putting a lot of blame on me. I’m the new kid on the block trying to figure all of this out. I’ve tried to be as active as possible with regard to downtown. I’ve joined other trade organizations, just not the chamber.
I look at MBA(Midwest Booksellers Assoc.) as the most valuable organization I have joined. The dues are 1/3 of the chambers. the staff is smaller and I have many more tangible benefits. there are approx. 200 members. I get something out this membership every month, not just 2 days a year.
When the chamber has more to offer, I’ll join. The chamber has to earn membership of the businesses, it is not an entitlement.
#30
kiffi summa April 9, 2008 8:21 am
Paul, re: your April 8 post (#24) There are non-members of the Chamber who do BIG jobs to help make WinterWalk a success…The Key Kids.
They do the luminaries, put them all out and light them and pick them up. It’s a huge number, maybe 800? They were asked by the Chamber to do it one year, and have been doing it ever since. One year they almost didn’t do it when it came up, because they had gotten a big lecture from someone at the Chamber about not singing or being rowdy while they were setting out, or picking up the luminaries. But being the good kids they are, they just bitched about it a little between themselves, and then said of course we’ll do it; we love making the town beautiful.
#31
David Schlosser April 9, 2008 8:40 am
Retail Chamber members STILL are required to pony up extra dollars above and beyond their annual membership fees for Winter Walk. $50-$75…somewhere in there.
Winter Walk is a unique event and not inexpensive to put on. Yet every year the Chamber is criticized by some retail members because they have to pay an annual membership fee and then $50-$75 more for WW fees. As a store Manager, I’m not against that per se…but a lot of retail owners don’t understand why they have to pay both fees. I think the Chamber needs to do a little better job in explaining to its retail members where those membership dollars go…and when money is spent on advertising for events such as Winter Walk, publicize that fact!
My criticism is that there is a Retail Committee charged with coordinating and running events that bring customers downtown (or to Northfield in general) and with setting up seminars or educational sessions that help retail businesses. How are you supposed to do that with an annual operating budget of zero dollars?
Give the RC an annual budget and you will see more events taking place both downtown and throughout the community. You’ll see, and we need, more advertising and promotion for these events. You’ll also see fewer members wondering where their membership dollars go. Some of this budget could be used to offset WW costs for Chamber members. And you might see more retail owners, like Jerry, joining the Chamber. I really can’t blame him for not.
#32
David Ludescher April 9, 2008 1:52 pm
David S: If the Retail Committee is funded, it just means that all the Chamber members have to pay for the Winter Walk, and not just the downtown members. A better solution is for the Chamber to pay its member’s portion, and then hit up every non-Chamber member for funding their share of the costs. Jerry would be willing to pay something (if he can afford it). Do you think other non-Chamber members would pony up money for their fair share?
Jerry: I appreciate your comments. You are right; the Chamber needs to earn your business, and we will someday.
#33
David Schlosser April 9, 2008 2:38 pm
I think the Chamber paying the member’s portion of the Winter Walk fees is a fine solution. It eliminates the “double-dipping” into member’s funds, and eliminates members wondering why they have to pay additional money to fund WW.
Collecting from non-members who benefit by the event whether they pay or not will always be a challenge. Honest answer? The majority of non-members probably won’t pay for these events because they (at least the downtown merchants) benefit from the event traffic anyway.
My point, though, is not just about WW. If the goal of the Retail Committe is to host seminars that educate its members and to conduct even more events like Winter Walk, Crazy Days, and Ladies Night Out, how can that be accomplished with zero budget dollars? Frankly, it really feels to me like the Retail Committee is not considered important enough to be part of the annual Chamber of Commerce budgeting process.
#34
David Ludescher April 9, 2008 3:26 pm
David S: The Chamber’s goal is not to host more events, but to provide value to all of its members. If the events are serving a small portion of our membership, and non-members are taking advantage of the event without paying, I don’t see why the Chamber would want to commit even more dollars to the event.
#35
David Schlosser April 9, 2008 4:02 pm
Well, if that’s the attitude, then you’re still going to face disgruntled retail members who have to pay two fees.
And really, doesn;t Winter Walk provide value to all of its members? The PR that Northfield receives and has received from it has been good for ALL of Northfield–not just a few retail members. I would dispute that Winter Walk only benefits a small portion of its membership.
So what, in your mind, is the goal of the Retail Committee? What is its charge? If not hosting more events, what should it be doing?
#36
John S. Thomas April 9, 2008 4:23 pm
It sounds like there should be two Chambers… The Downtown Chamber of Commerce, and the Greater Northfield Area Chamber of Commerce.
All this infighting is counterproductive.
The chamber will attract more members with honey… sending “Bubba and Guido” over from the Chamber Collection agency to ask non-members to pay for events may increase the short term funds, but it will not increase memberships. I do agree however, that there should be a common marketing goal between all downtown business owners. I do not think that should fall under the Chamber. The Chambers’ scope is much larger than downtown. Maybe the NDDC should take point on this?
The Chamber must come up with a “service” that is a “value add” for non-members, thus encouraging membership. If your events are only serving selected portions of your membership, then you need to find balance and programs that are inclusive of other groups.
Team building takes leadership, dedication, and motivation. I see a lot of activity where folks are trying to get things done, and I perceive a lot of obstacles where folks are beating their heads against a wall.
As a resident looking in on something I do not entirely understand, I see three organizations trying to get something going with Downtown, but not a lot of co-support and team building. I perceive that this is changing, and it is getting better slowly, but still has a ways to go.
I was thinking it might be a better model for the Chamber to focus more on all of the community and be more supportive of the NDDC and the EDA. The NDDC should be the focus organization for getting the downtown moving, and could work with the Chamber on Marketing, etc.
The EDA could work on economic development within the community, and have an adviser that works with the Chamber, and an adviser that works with the NDDC.
I am not sure which way to go… but it seems that all three groups either need to get along, and saddle up and get something done… or meet and carve up the kingdom, and go play in their respective neutral corners.
In conclusion however, each organization needs to define themselves, and their goals, and offer a service that enhances their memberships and participation. In business, its all about the ROI (Return on Investment). No business owner wants to invest money in a task or organization if they are not going to get a positive return.
Again, I am reading and learning… I do not see the whole picture, but in the last 5 years I have been here, it seems like there has been this cloud of inaction between these three groups hanging over downtown.
Maybe the fresh faces and the spring will bring a renewed interest in getting things done.
Thanks for the opportunity to post, and I hope that I can become more educated by the responses to my post.
I would also hope, that a member of the EDA, a member of the NDDC, and a member of the chamber could post their goals and mission statement, so that the rest of us could get a better understanding of their scope and mission.
Again, I do not know all the players, and the whole situation, but I would like to continue to participate in the discussion, and see if the community can help through offering new ideas.
Regards,
John Thomas
#37
David Ludescher April 9, 2008 6:22 pm
John: Thanks for the post. There is an inaccurate perception that the Chamber, NDDC, and the EDA are fighting because they are the ones discussing the issues. In fact, the three organizations are all tackling the same problem from 3 different sides for downtown issues, and 2 sides outside the downtown.
The Chamber is the business of business; the EDA is the government of business; and the NDDC is the watchdog of downtown. All have and should have a function for the downtown. All have worthy missions.
There are two tricky parts to this coordination.
The first part is changing the public perception that the most important aspect of downtown is how it looks. The most important aspect is economic ; if you can’t make money, i.e. Jacobsen’s, then you have to close. If the downtown is to stay nice, then the public should pay for it. To have a Historical Preservation Committee or Building Official requiring certain changes makes business more expensive without putting the cost back to the taxpayers, who are requesting the good looks.
The second part should be easier, but it not proving to be so. The second part is getting all of the downtown owners together so that they work toward a common goal for the downtown, and all share equitably. Several years ago, Joe Grundhoefer, Victor Summa, and others had the idea of a Special Services District downtown. It would have operated like a townhouse association. Everyone pays a fair share, and gets the advantage of the unified services. As I recall, only about 20% of the downtown owners were interested. Cost was the main factor.
A logical question might be how much the taxpayers would be willing to contribute so that the downtown district could have some kind of overarching downtown management district. I would suggest that this expense be shared only by the residences, and not the businesses. What business wants their taxes to go up so that downtown businesses can have a competitive and economic advantage? Why is that fair?
#38
Paul Fried April 9, 2008 6:58 pm
I’m still a bit confused, but glad to see David L. has switched to a committment to earn Jerry’s membership rather than questioning why he didn’t help fund a retail event, or whatever.
It would seem that if the Chamber funded some retail events that are primarily downtown, and some that are primarily elsewhere, there should not be such protectionism of one or another turf. Some members are downtown, some are elsewhere.
David L., where does all the funding go, with dues so high? Or is the Chamber membership so small that it only funds a small staff and office, but no retail events?
#39
Adam Elg April 9, 2008 7:00 pm
David L.
Does the Chamber serve the community as a whole or it’s members only. If it’s members only? It should stick to educating and informing it member about relevant issues to business. If it is to serve it’s members and the community at large, it should host the events without regard to membership.
Also, I dislike your description of the NDDC. Watchdog is inaccurate and has negative connotations. I would say it’s better described as an advocate of downtown businesses.
John T.
We have an organization that serves downtown Northfield. It is the Northfield Downtown Development Corporation. There is no need for two Chambers. And yes, the current Chamber is The Greater Northfield Area Chamber of Commerce.
#40
Paul Fried April 9, 2008 7:00 pm
Another thought:
The Chamber already has some good sense to have sliding membership fees based on business income, so the businesses that make more money pay more in dues. Great. But there are some small businesses and start-ups that are struggling idealsists, staying in business, but not making as much as some other businesses. Owners should not be criticized for not making as much as other businesses; sometimes people like to do what they like to do, and not make profit top priority, and if they stay in business and are content with their profit margins, fine. If another business is raking in the dough, and in it mostly for the money, or in it because they love that form of work, fine. Whatever. More power to ‘em.
Chamber membership fees require more of businesses that profit more. But some smaller businesses and start-ups can’t afford the Chamber’s sliding scale. Some of these small businesses in Nfld include businesses based out of the home, which federal statistics say account for the vast majority of new businesses. If the Chamber had any sense, they might wake up and smell the home-based start-ups: if this is where most new businesses start, why not have some accessible membership they can afford? Nope, the Chamber’s not interested.
Then folks describe the situation where they ask $50 or $75 of each business, regardless of how much they take in, on average, from an event like Winterwalk. It’s a stretch to hear David L. ask Jerry about his contribs to the fund, and to speak of “milking the cow.” Some businesses can afford it, and perhaps some start-ups can’t, so get over it. Those that are already raking in the most, on a regular basis, and from those events in particular, might be asked to provide more of the funding — if the goal is really, as David L. says, a reasonable and equitable arrangement.
Furthermore, if a business is not located downtown, there are still economic benefits they receive from downtown retail events. If we have a thriving economy and a strong downtown, this is some of what attracts folks to Northfield and makes the real estate values a bit higher than some surrounding towns.
#41
Paul Fried April 9, 2008 7:04 pm
Last comment from me for the night:
Of all the $50 and $75 fees or donations collected for Winterwalk, how much of that gets donated to The Key Kids for their decorating work? (See Kiffi’s comment #31.) Or donated to them from the Chamber, which has many members who benefit? Or from the NNews, which takes in extra ad revenue to publicize those retail events?
Or do some businesses and organizations (and I’m not talking about Jerry here) feel it’s ok to just keep milking some cows for free?
#42
Adam Elg April 9, 2008 7:05 pm
John T
Regarding my last post. Sorry I skimmed your remarks. You’re well aware of the potential for the NDDC. Thanks for chiming in.
#43
David Ludescher April 9, 2008 9:37 pm
Let me be clear about a couple of things about the Chamber: We exist to serve those who pay the expenses of the Chamber. Our mission is to create a healthy business environment in the greater Northfield area. This includes downtown, “Southfield”, Dundas, and the greater Northfield area.
Here were some of my frustrations as president:
Chamber is often overlooked, such as on the Transportation committee, and initially, the Comprehensive Plan;
Much of Northfield is critical of business, until it comes time to sponsor some event or pay for something;
Some businesses milk the Chamber’s cow, by trying to get services but not paying anything.
I think Chamber members can change this culture by actively participating in City governance, saying no to sponsorships that don’t make business sense, and encouraging their business partners to be Chamber members.
As my frustrations increased, so did my hopefulness. It would have been easy to walk away from the year bitter because of all the frustrations. But, I have come to realize that the Chamber is vitally important to Northfield’s future - more so than in other towns where business may be celebrated beyond its merits. The Chamber lends a needed balance to the “Chamber of Non-Commerce”. For that reason, the Chamber will be around a long time.
#44
John S. Thomas April 9, 2008 11:40 pm
David L. ,
Could you elaborate a bit more:
Why the taxpayers? Why not the customers? Why not another one of those .0025 cent local sales taxes? Why not leverage a portion of the lodging tax?
I don’t want to elaborate too much here, but my biggest pet peeve is the fact that several downtown businesses just do not get it. (I could rant for days on this subject…) My question. How are we supposed to support them as customers, when they cannot even open on time in the morning with product ready to sell?
How would a downtown management district that would help me with that?
Thanks everyone for the information.
#45
Hayes Scriven April 10, 2008 8:24 am
I have been watching this feed since it came up and I was wondering would the Chamber be open to having a focus group or a, this is what the Chamber does type of thing. I know last year they sponsored a meeting at the golf club and I found it very informational but I don’t know if anything came from it.
#46
David Ludescher April 10, 2008 9:14 am
John: I know the downtown businesses understand. They have to go home every night and look in their wallet. I don’t know if the general public understands that you can’t just legislate a nice downtown; someone has to pay for it.
#47
Patrick Enders April 10, 2008 10:41 am
David L,
As a member of the general public, and possibly of the “Chamber of Non-Commerce,” as well (I’m not sure what you meant by that) I have been following this thread with great interest.
It seems to me that if you want the Chamber to succeed at fostering a thriving, vibrant Northfield business community - or even if you just want to promote your members’ businesses - it would behoove you to foster a more positive public relationship between the Chamber and the public and non-Chamber businesses.
Instead, I hear you bemoaning that your job “is not easy in a town with so many diverse opinions,” complaining that non-member businesses “milk the cow,” and deriding the public for an “entitlement mentality” and stating that “I don’t know if the general public understands that you can’t just legislate a nice downtown; someone has to pay for it.”
I’d suggest that the new head of the Chamber think more broadly about the role that the Chamber might take in the community, and that he or she undertakes an effort to improve the image of the Chamber within the community. Clearly, many of us are unclear on what the Chamber is for, why we should care about it, or why we should listen to it.
I think Hayes is right: a public informational/listening meeting would be a good start.
#48
Patrick Enders April 10, 2008 10:44 am
David L,
Oh, and thank you for Winter Walk. Events like that are great for the community, and go a long way towards fostering a positive impression of the value of the Chamber.
#49
Tracy Davis April 10, 2008 11:47 am
I just read through all the comments on this thread to try to catch up.
Based on my experience as a member of the EDA for six years and a downtown retailer for three or four, I don’t believe that either the Chamber or the EDA really represents, or provides valuable services for, most independent retailers here. That’s okay; it’s fine for organizations to have a particular focus or mission, and they don’t have to be all-inclusive. The EDA’s mission is to increase jobs and commercial tax base, so they focus on the kinds of businesses that are likely to have a more significant impact on those areas - which are typically not small-scale independent retailers.
As David L. points out, the Chamber doesn’t really exist to benefit Northfield businesses as a whole; it exists to benefit its members, and most businesses that join Chambers of Commerce are larger-scale operations that have line items in their budget for that kind of thing. Again, maybe that’s fine; I just don’t think the Chamber should position itself as a “business advocate” when in fact it’s a “member advocate”, and the interests of those two may be quite different.
If the Chamber wants to increase its membership among the downtown retailers, or other small-business owners and/or startups, they need to start *really* listening to what these prospective members want, or expect, or could benefit from. Too often, it feels like the Chamber simply expects people to value what it offers without determining whether or not it’s really filling a need.
#50
John S. Thomas April 10, 2008 4:16 pm
Tracy,
I think you just stated it perfectly!
Here’s to change. Change is good.
I would love to participate in an information session. I hope one gets scheduled after the “change of command”. It is a good way for the new president to meet his public, and get a feeling towards the opinions of the business community.
It will be up to them however, to determine the scope, either chamber member only, or public.
#51
New Medium, New Rules? - Locally Grown April 10, 2008 5:22 pm
[...] resides or with whom to effectively address it. I thought of this while reading Griff’s post about the Chamber when he wrote about why he hasn’t joined. If Griff wanted seek a specific change in the [...]
#52
David Ludescher April 10, 2008 6:20 pm
Hayes: I do like your idea of an informational fair for non-members.
Tracy: As for your statement that that the Chamber doesn’t represent small businesses or the independent retailer, I would point you to Mary Rossing who just joined the board. She’s not only a member but is giving of her time on a volunteer basis. PRESENT PERFECT, PRESENT PERFECT, PRESENT PERFECT.
Everyone: Please remember that my comments were directed to the Chamber members telling them why we should be hopeful. I was telling them that we need to change some of internal attitudes if we want to be more successful. It was not intended to be a whining session addressed to the general public.
The greater Northfield area needs business - maybe now more than ever. I think that we can all agree upon that. Now, how do we make it happen?
#53
Hayes Scriven April 11, 2008 8:51 am
David,
I would hope the Chamber might have one for members as well. The Historical Society is a member and I would LOVE to be involved in a session. As I have questions and concerns that I would feel more comfortable voicing there than on LG.
#54
David Ludescher April 11, 2008 9:07 am