Comments on: Hockey dads are in the warming dog house with City http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/ Blogging, podcasting, and tweeting the people, issues, and events of Northfield, MN Mon, 02 Aug 2010 04:59:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Nicholas Piszczek http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-98551 Nicholas Piszczek Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:23:47 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-98551 Wow-- Your not kidding there. The idea that if you work hard and apply yourself the world can be yours is finished. The appuratus has significantly changed what it takes to be personally and professionally sucsessful. This is not synicism at its finest. Peel 1 layer of the onion off and you've arrived at the problem. You always new it was in there somewhere but you now no longer have to dig in deep to find it, its on top of you. Wow– Your not kidding there. The idea that if you work hard and apply yourself the world can be yours is finished. The appuratus has significantly changed what it takes to be personally and professionally sucsessful. This is not synicism at its finest. Peel 1 layer of the onion off and you’ve arrived at the problem. You always new it was in there somewhere but you now no longer have to dig in deep to find it, its on top of you.

]]> By: john george http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-98529 john george Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:20:02 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-98529 Nicholas- Sounds just like Democracy across the US right now- the minority rules! Nicholas- Sounds just like Democracy across the US right now- the minority rules!

]]> By: Nicholas Piszczek http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-98495 Nicholas Piszczek Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:44:59 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-98495 If you would like to send those fellows up to Luck Wisconsin that would be great. We could use some impromtu spirit building when it comes to youth Hockey in this town. The village here is ready to tear down our warming house due to a 10 local juvenile thugs having adopted it as their gang clubhouse While 50-60 kids use it on the up and up. An entire Village Administration and enforcement capitulating to 14 year old kids. Thats a story... If you would like to send those fellows up to Luck Wisconsin that would be great. We could use some impromtu spirit building when it comes to youth Hockey in this town. The village here is ready to tear down our warming house due to a 10 local juvenile thugs having adopted it as their gang clubhouse While 50-60 kids use it on the up and up. An entire Village Administration and enforcement capitulating to 14 year old kids.
Thats a story…

]]> By: john george http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-95193 john george Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:46:56 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-95193 Seems like this is a key phrase in the article- "Northfield hockey dads built the shack at the Ice Arena’s outdoor rink in late November, despite warnings from city officials that they lacked the necessary permits and approvals." Is this correct or not? Communication is a two way street. Just because we think we understand, it isn't necessarily so until we have the paperwork in hand. Seems like this is a key phrase in the article-
“Northfield hockey dads built the shack at the Ice Arena’s outdoor rink in late November, despite warnings from city officials that they lacked the necessary permits and approvals.”
Is this correct or not? Communication is a two way street. Just because we think we understand, it isn’t necessarily so until we have the paperwork in hand.

]]> By: Griff Wigley http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-95190 Griff Wigley Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:59:01 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-95190 Thanks, Kiffi. The new article is at: http://northfieldnews.com/news.php?viewStory=51057 Thanks, Kiffi. The new article is at:
http://northfieldnews.com/news.php?viewStory=51057

]]> By: kiffi summa http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-95182 kiffi summa Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:59:44 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-95182 There is a longer article now; I think the title is something like "City Issues Permits for Warming Shack". It quotes Mr. Walinski as saying the city was never against the shack, it was a "breakdown of communication"... How many times have we heard that explanation? My concern is this: this council (the 4 new members) has stated since they were elected, and even before as they campaigned, that they intended to improve the communications and information delivery of the city to its residents. That was either their first or second stated goal. It has been a year, and we are still having "communication breakdowns" that are not in favor of the citizens, and seem to only reinforce the attitude that city hall functions for its regulating self first, and citizens second, creating an unnecessary feeling of adversarial positioning. Requiring a citizen to fill out a data practice request to get a piece of public information ( such as a council meeting disc) is another piece of bureaucratic restriction that is citizen unfriendly, and probably illegal, if just not ridiculously unnecessary. (reason for this new rule stated as costs of having more than ONE disc, keeping track of it, etc. I would be willing to bet it takes more time and wages to keep track of the paperwork than to let the computer make a very inexpensive [[ 5 cents?] disc.) I sincerely hope that in this New Year, the new members of this council will make good on that goal from last January, and set rules for the staff which make good on their promise of improved communication while actually lessening some of the regulating burden from the staff time. There is a longer article now; I think the title is something like “City Issues Permits for Warming Shack”. It quotes Mr. Walinski as saying the city was never against the shack, it was a “breakdown of communication”…
How many times have we heard that explanation?

My concern is this: this council (the 4 new members) has stated since they were elected, and even before as they campaigned, that they intended to improve the communications and information delivery of the city to its residents. That was either their first or second stated goal.

It has been a year, and we are still having “communication breakdowns” that are not in favor of the citizens, and seem to only reinforce the attitude that city hall functions for its regulating self first, and citizens second, creating an unnecessary feeling of adversarial positioning.

Requiring a citizen to fill out a data practice request to get a piece of public information ( such as a council meeting disc) is another piece of bureaucratic restriction that is citizen unfriendly, and probably illegal, if just not ridiculously unnecessary.
(reason for this new rule stated as costs of having more than ONE disc, keeping track of it, etc. I would be willing to bet it takes more time and wages to keep track of the paperwork than to let the computer make a very inexpensive [[ 5 cents?] disc.)

I sincerely hope that in this New Year, the new members of this council will make good on that goal from last January, and set rules for the staff which make good on their promise of improved communication while actually lessening some of the regulating burden from the staff time.

]]> By: Griff Wigley http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-95179 Griff Wigley Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:57:21 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-95179 <p>Thanks, Kathie. The article: <a href="http://northfieldnews.com/news.php?viewStory=51050" rel="nofollow">City permits warming shack construction</a>. </p> <blockquote> <p>The warming house could be used by hockey players as soon as next week, and the City Council is scheduled to consider approving public use at its Jan. 19 meeting. </p> </blockquote> <p>I thought it was already being used. <br /> </p> Thanks, Kathie. The article: City permits warming shack construction.

The warming house could be used by hockey players as soon as next week, and the City Council is scheduled to consider approving public use at its Jan. 19 meeting.

I thought it was already being used.

]]> By: Kathie Galotti http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-95141 Kathie Galotti Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:19:35 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-95141 Nfld news is reporting that the city building inspector issued a permit for the warming house. Huzzah. Nfld news is reporting that the city building inspector issued a permit for the warming house. Huzzah.

]]> By: john george http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94675 john george Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:11:23 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94675 Patrick- I had some friends a number of years ago who decided to go ice fishing one January day. By the time they got a hole cut in the ice large enough to launch the boat, they were too tired to fish, so they went home. Patrick- I had some friends a number of years ago who decided to go ice fishing one January day. By the time they got a hole cut in the ice large enough to launch the boat, they were too tired to fish, so they went home.

]]> By: kiffi summa http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94672 kiffi summa Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:52:07 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94672 Patrick: NO WAY! = Bad Outcome! Skatepark plaza = YES Parking lot = NO Patrick: NO WAY! = Bad Outcome!

Skatepark plaza = YES

Parking lot = NO

]]> By: Patrick Enders http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94670 Patrick Enders Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:33:37 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94670 Here's a link for that: “If you haul a fish house out and leave it unattended on the ice overnight, it needs a fish house license,” http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/index.php/2007/11/20/fish-house-and-dark-house-licensing-changes-greet-ice-anglers/ "Fish house license." Huh. Learn something new every day. Here’s a link for that:
“If you haul a fish house out and leave it unattended on the ice overnight, it needs a fish house license,”
http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/index.php/2007/11/20/fish-house-and-dark-house-licensing-changes-greet-ice-anglers/

“Fish house license.” Huh. Learn something new every day.

]]> By: john george http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94669 john george Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:14:45 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94669 Robbie- If you walk up and check out any of these "...numerous shacks dragged out on public lakes every winter...", you will find a small aluminum "license" affixed to each of them, purchased from the DNR. If I remember the rules correctly, any house not having this license, along with the owner's name and phone number, is subject to immediate removal, usually done with a match. Robbie- If you walk up and check out any of these “…numerous shacks dragged out on public lakes every winter…”, you will find a small aluminum “license” affixed to each of them, purchased from the DNR. If I remember the rules correctly, any house not having this license, along with the owner’s name and phone number, is subject to immediate removal, usually done with a match.

]]> By: John S. Thomas http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94666 John S. Thomas Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:51:29 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94666 It is in fact on Public land: http://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=74&LayerID=590&PageTypeID=1&PageID=956&Q=1803291338&KeyValue=2201351001 and it is in the right of way. It is in fact on Public land:

http://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=74&LayerID=590&PageTypeID=1&PageID=956&Q=1803291338&KeyValue=2201351001

and it is in the right of way.

]]> By: Patrick Enders http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94661 Patrick Enders Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:01:50 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94661 Cool. Will you and Victor also help me solve the public parking situation by paving Central Park? Again, we'd use private cement to do the work, and it'd be a valuable and much-needed city amenity. Cool. Will you and Victor also help me solve the public parking situation by paving Central Park? Again, we’d use private cement to do the work, and it’d be a valuable and much-needed city amenity.

]]> By: Robbie Wigley http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94589 Robbie Wigley Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:26:38 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94589 I may be totally naive about these things but I am going to employ an endearing "Margery Cox tactic" and ask.... What is the difference between the warming shack at the skating rink and the numerous shacks dragged out on public lakes every winter... there doesn''t seem to be any code requirements or expectations as to how tacky or elaborate they are. Some of them look like they could blow over in a good wind... plus who is responsible when they fall through the ice. They are on public land... aren't they? If the warming house was on skids would that make a difference, or if it were actually located on the ice.... Some how this all doesn't seem logical to me. I may be totally naive about these things but I am going to employ an endearing “Margery Cox tactic” and ask…. What is the difference between the warming shack at the skating rink and the numerous shacks dragged out on public lakes every winter… there doesn”t seem to be any code requirements or expectations as to how tacky or elaborate they are. Some of them look like they could blow over in a good wind… plus who is responsible when they fall through the ice. They are on public land… aren’t they? If the warming house was on skids would that make a difference, or if it were actually located on the ice…. Some how this all doesn’t seem logical to me.

]]> By: kiffi summa http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94587 kiffi summa Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:05:52 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94587 Go for it, Patrick... I'm sure you'd have a lot of helping hands. Just make sure it isn't too cool for a RELATIVELY ( how the 'ho-tel do you spell that?) OLD GUY like you to cruise, once you get it built! Go for it, Patrick… I’m sure you’d have a lot of helping hands.
Just make sure it isn’t too cool for a RELATIVELY ( how the ‘ho-tel do you spell that?) OLD GUY like you to cruise, once you get it built!

]]> By: Patrick Enders http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94585 Patrick Enders Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:13:59 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94585 Kiffi, If the warming hut is on private land, as Jane suggests, then there is no public interest in the matter one way or another - beyond any permits that may have been required as for any other building project. Problem solved. Otherwise, John and John and William have already explained the potential problem. Also, see the article above that Rob linked, or the original article in the News. In addition, you should check out the cool new skate park that I'm going to build in Memorial Park this spring - with my own dollars. It'll be for the sake of both the kids, and the city's amenities! Kiffi,
If the warming hut is on private land, as Jane suggests, then there is no public interest in the matter one way or another – beyond any permits that may have been required as for any other building project. Problem solved.

Otherwise, John and John and William have already explained the potential problem. Also, see the article above that Rob linked, or the original article in the News.

In addition, you should check out the cool new skate park that I’m going to build in Memorial Park this spring – with my own dollars. It’ll be for the sake of both the kids, and the city’s amenities!

]]> By: kiffi summa http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94582 kiffi summa Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:37:08 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94582 Patrick: Whose dollars were the Hockey Dads spending for the sake of both the kids, and the city's amenities? For someone who's always linking up to Talking Points Memo, (my home page for news also) you sure have an authoritarian POV, or... I'm sorry if I've missed a valid point made! Patrick: Whose dollars were the Hockey Dads spending for the sake of both the kids, and the city’s amenities?

For someone who’s always linking up to Talking Points Memo, (my home page for news also) you sure have an authoritarian POV, or… I’m sorry if I’ve missed a valid point made!

]]> By: Patrick Enders http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94580 Patrick Enders Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:01:59 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94580 Jane, Whose property do you think the warming shack is on? Jane,
Whose property do you think the warming shack is on?

]]> By: Jane Moline http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94578 Jane Moline Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:36:23 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94578 William: your analogy lacks-- logic. There seems to be a dearth of facts--I don't even think the shack is on public land and I am pretty sure it is not on any right of way (although the city would like to think of it as a right-of-way, they have yet to make it so). I don't think the Hockey Dads were trying to do anything other than give temporary shelter to kids lacing up or unlacing skates. Like I said--everybody needs to take a deep breath and chill--and the city can make the Hockey Dads take the whole thing down in the spring instead of stomping their feet and throwing a hissy fit because their feelings got hurt. Just make it work. (And, after taking it back down in the spring, the Hockey Dads will never do it again because taking it down is going to be even more unpleasant than putting it up.) And next time they will put it on skids so they can haul it in and out. William: your analogy lacks– logic.
There seems to be a dearth of facts–I don’t even think the shack is on public land and I am pretty sure it is not on any right of way (although the city would like to think of it as a right-of-way, they have yet to make it so).

I don’t think the Hockey Dads were trying to do anything other than give temporary shelter to kids lacing up or unlacing skates.

Like I said–everybody needs to take a deep breath and chill–and the city can make the Hockey Dads take the whole thing down in the spring instead of stomping their feet and throwing a hissy fit because their feelings got hurt. Just make it work. (And, after taking it back down in the spring, the Hockey Dads will never do it again because taking it down is going to be even more unpleasant than putting it up.) And next time they will put it on skids so they can haul it in and out.

]]> By: William Siemers http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94562 William Siemers Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:36:05 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94562 Jane...I would like the neighborhood children to be able to sit and contemplate the beauty of Hidden Valley Park on even the coldest days. So it's ok for me to build a warming shack (on the park property behind Griff's house), without the involvement of city permitting and planning? Jane…I would like the neighborhood children to be able to sit and contemplate the beauty of Hidden Valley Park on even the coldest days. So it’s ok for me to build a warming shack (on the park property behind Griff’s house), without the involvement of city permitting and planning?

]]> By: John S. Thomas http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94559 John S. Thomas Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:59:43 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94559 You might want to review the guidelines at http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/guidelines/ You might want to review the guidelines at http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/guidelines/

]]> By: Jane Moline http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94558 Jane Moline Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:44:04 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94558 I think the Hockey dads did the right thing and everybody else is full of themselves and they should all CHILL. I think the Hockey dads did the right thing and everybody else is full of themselves and they should all CHILL.

]]> By: john george http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94521 john george Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:07:23 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94521 John S.- I'm with you on this one. There is the posibility to obtain the proper paperwork at this point, pay any necessary fines, determine ownership, and proceed with the project. You bring up a good point in liability with the building. Are the "hockey dads" going to carry the liability insurance and maintain the building? Or, is this a "gift" to the city, with all the future maintainence, insurance, what-have-you, becoming the city's responsibility? Some pretty simple questions, or so it seems, but sometimes the answers are unclear if it isn't properly defined up front. Hopefully, no one's nose is out of joint and the project will be able to be completed in time for this season. John S.- I’m with you on this one. There is the posibility to obtain the proper paperwork at this point, pay any necessary fines, determine ownership, and proceed with the project. You bring up a good point in liability with the building. Are the “hockey dads” going to carry the liability insurance and maintain the building? Or, is this a “gift” to the city, with all the future maintainence, insurance, what-have-you, becoming the city’s responsibility? Some pretty simple questions, or so it seems, but sometimes the answers are unclear if it isn’t properly defined up front. Hopefully, no one’s nose is out of joint and the project will be able to be completed in time for this season.

]]> By: John S. Thomas http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/comment-page-1/#comment-94520 John S. Thomas Tue, 15 Dec 2009 02:50:08 +0000 http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/post/14273/#comment-94520 I should add, I think the addition of the warming house is a great thing. However, it must be done right, within the law to ensure safe occupancy and compliance. I do think there has to be a way that this can come to a mutually beneficial settlement. Things, no matter how grand and helpful they are to the community, cannot be done in direct violation of laws and ordinances. Those laws are there for the protection of the community. I should add, I think the addition of the warming house is a great thing. However, it must be done right, within the law to ensure safe occupancy and compliance.

I do think there has to be a way that this can come to a mutually beneficial settlement. Things, no matter how grand and helpful they are to the community, cannot be done in direct violation of laws and ordinances.

Those laws are there for the protection of the community.

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