Ever since Snobamagate, I’ve been thinking about the degree to which I’m a snob… and whether Northfield has more than its share of snobbish people.
Twenty-five years ago, I worked for the Faribault Public Schools as a school social worker and it struck me how frequently the snobbishness of Northfielders came up in conversations among faculty and staff who I worked with. It really grated on them. Since then, alarm bells always go off in my head whenever I hear a fellow Northfielder make a snide remark about Faribault, Dundas, or other towns nearby.
The snide remarks are nearly always made by someone with at least a college education and the target of their remarks is the one of main demographics that Clinton and Obama are fighting over for this week’s primary in Pennsylvania – the white, working class with a high school education.
In one of the comments I added to my January blog post, Why do you love Northfield? Why should people move here?, I wrote:
I often tell people that one of the neat things about Northfield is its social diversity. Most small towns with a college or university are dominated by its presence. They become a 99% latte town as described by David Brooks in Bobos in Paradise. Northfield is 50% a latte town. Half the population aren’t bobos, and I like that. Lots of conservatives and libertarians. Lots of blue collar, working class people. Lots of religious folks. Lots of people who volunteer in ways that bobos don’t.
I think many of us Northfielders who could be seen as bobos, especially the progressive liberal elites (which, as an Obama supporter with a Master’s degree, I’m arguably one, my support for Ray Cox, Tom Neuville and appreciation of the commentaries by David Brooks not withstanding), don’t recognize our own arrogance when we deal with others in the public sphere who are ‘not like us,’ especially ‘not smart like us.’
I think Obama is less of a snob than I am, but there’s probably a tendency in all of us to get a little condescending when talking about others who you don’t hang out with much. Once you’re a Senator, your circle of social contacts gets pretty limited, no matter what your roots.
I drink coffee most often at GBM and the HideAway, not the Quarterback or Perkins. I drink beer most often at The Cow and Froggy’s, rarely at the L&M or Corner Bar. When I go bowling at Jesse James Lanes with my kids, I don’t usually know anyone else there. I loved the Adult Spelling Bee. I don’t watch NASCAR events. I go to art gallery openings. I drink a lot of white wine in the winter.
But most of the guys I play racquetball and ride motorcycles with hang out in a totally different circle. They’ve never even heard of Locally Grown. I’d hate to think I’d be condescending in a conversation about them but I can see how it could happen if someone asked me why none of these guys frequent LoGroNo. I could easily make the same mistake as Obama did and slip into a little psychoanalysis that could be seen as patronizing.
I really like the PBS special, People Like Us: Social Class in America, because it touches on all these class issues and opens your eyes. I think it should be shown yearly in a ‘Social Class in Northfield’ event at The Grand, even though ‘my types’ would be the only ones to show up for it.
159 Comments
Bill Mahr, on his show on HBO, interviewed a bunch of bikers and gun owners to see how that Obama ‘bitter’ comment sat with them.
here is the video:
Griff: As you said, “there’s probably a tendency in all of us to get a little condescending when talking about others who you don’t hang out with much.” I probably have been a snob about Faribault all these years, but I’ve recently come to appreciate how well that city functions. River Bend Nature Center is a good example. This extraordinarily beautiful and active facility is made possible by the cooperation of the city, a non-profit supported by generous benefactors and hundreds of volunteers who build trails, teach kids and fill bird feeders. The school district sends every K-6 student out there 2 or 3 times a year for substantive environmental education programs.
Northfielders should visit the newly refurbished old movie house, now a Center for the Arts, to see how Faribault has succeeded in creating a magnet for the downtown which features not only the restored theater, but excellent places for artists to work and for others to learn. Many of the handsome old buildings on Central Avenue have been restored and there seems to be a lot of energy along the street. There are probably other reasons we should admire Faribault. All it takes is a short drive south!
Anthony, you pointed us to a very interesting video. Since I do not have cable or the like, I miss lots of these interesting stories. I really enjoyed watching this one, since my sons (in Ohio) are akin to the guys in this story.
One of the biggest problems we face as a society is how to balance our desire to clique up (think HS pep rallies, Vikings v. Packers, Cryps v. Bloods, Dems v. Reps) with our need to keep our conversations open and flowing. If all you ever do is latte-up and think you are somehow connected might I suggest you browse the bar at the bowling alley, snoop around to the Eagles for one of their fund-raising brunches (preferably for something you normally would not support, like say a fund-raiser to buy calves for local 4H members to raise for the county fair), or hang out by the river and talk with the anglers there. It can be an exhilarating experience.
Several years ago I had a Northfield High School student working in my machine shop. When he was making plans for an education after high school, I suggested technical college, pointing out several programs that seemed to promise a good future.
He was insulted, thinking that I was putting him down. Actually, the opposite was true. I thought he had a great work ethic. He could figure things out faster than anyone else I’d employed. He enjoyed making stuff. He wanted to be self employed. I thought he could learn a well paying, in demand trade of some sort, and be working for himself in a matter of a few years.
After talking to him a bit, I concluded that for at least some Northfielders, going to a technical school was an admission of inferiority.
Later, I spoke with a local guy who is a very successful businessman. He employs many skilled blue collar workers and actively works with the area technical schools. He bristled when I told him about my experience with my employee. He thought the devaluation of technical, blue collar skills was true everywhere, but much more so in Northfield. He thought the presence of the colleges had something to do with it. I have to agree.
I grew up in very small towns in northern Minnesota. I watched, heard and participated in tons of prejudicial speech against social class from the lower and lower-middle class perspective. It runs both ways.
In fact, it runs all ways. I remember how my itty-bitty town of my childhood - pop. 120 when the wind was right - had “classes” of people, even though nearly the whole town was lower to lower-middle class, at best. Those with just a tiny bit more money derided the squalor of those with just a tiny bit less money, much like the racism exercised by people against others within their same broader racial category. Much like the regionalism evident across America.
In trashing the perceived elitism of Northfield, Griff, your Faribault colleagues were attempting to make themselves appear better in comparison to Northfield, which is, largely, the definition of elitism.
Social class bias is rampant, but it crosses all classes
I’m grateful that I’ve experienced many social classes and had friends across the field of personal / family income and ranging the spectrum of educational attainment. I tend to go for people who have a good, active sense of humor and are stimulating intellectually, which are traits independent of income and official education. I’ve found dull people are dull regardless of class or schooling. That’s who I am.
Of course, I have plenty of biases, diverse and subtle. We all do. Pretending you don’t is simply another form of elitism, and it prevents you from working on the biases. I believe Kurt Vonnegut said all you could do is be kind. That’s so very true.
Thanks to Tony for the link in comment #2. Very enlightening comments from Pennsylvanians who understood what Obama meant.
Brendon,
I agree.
I think it is a universal phenomenon - one that we must consciously resist - that “we” are better than “them.”
Norm Butler (of the Contented Cow) has suggested (half in jest, but still) that perhaps Dundas should try to create a small technical school to form a sort of Research triangle in the area. I mentioned that the two existing colleges could loan faculty and/or classes to round out the otherwise “too technical” nature of a small school, and the school could offer more hands-on classes for the students at the two liberal arts schools we already have. The Dundas-Bridgewater Inst. of Tech (Go D-BITs!) would anchor the triangle and could help balance out the educational opportunities in this area. It could focus on small scale farming (leaving industrial farming to the UofM types), technical issues, physical arts (metalworking and arts) and pre-engineering (a two year program that feeds into the four year system). Why not just use Faribault’s school? (sniff, they’re soooooo southern, way too southern for our northern sensibilities).
I don’t understand using elitism as a derogatory term.
I wanted the best doctor to repair my knee, am I elitist? I want the best person to be president, not someone that would have fun with my at a BBQ. (I stole that from bill mahr :P)
If the bobos (snobs) in Northfield actually wanted to make Northfield more diverse, they would quit trying to social engineer Northfield into a bobo town. Look at the Comp Plan. Even though it has been changed, it still reads like a Bobo Manifesto.
There is nothing wrong in being a bobo. The problem is thinking that everyone can or should be a bobo. When you are smart and cultured, it is difficult to imagine why everyone wouldn’t want to be like you.
This bobo term. People use it a lot*, but I don’t know many people in Northfield that it would actually apply to. Sounds like yet another derogatory stereotype.
People are complicated, and hard to understand. Calling some people ‘bobos’ will get you about as much goodwill (or help in revising our Comp Plan) as calling other people ‘yokels’ or ‘yahoos’ might. And it shows just as much toleration and understanding.
*: Actually, I’ve only heard it used here, and by David Brooks when he was talking/writing elsewhere. Heck, the term doesn’t even have its own Wikipedia page yet.
Excellent topic, Griff, and a lot of interesting comments. Growing up in Northfield in the mid-60s through mid-’70s, it was abundantly clear to me that class issues/problems were just as prevalent in Northfield as anywhere else (if not more so). Nothing has changed in the intervening decades. We in Northfield tend to think we live in a “special place” (which we do!), but we have a LOT to learn from other communities, and lots of room for improvement in this and many other areas.
Anthony, I thought the Bill Mahr/Jeremy Scahill YouTube video you posted was fascinating, and an excellent examination of the manufactured outrage over Obama’s “elitism.”
I have to agree with Patrick’s comments (#10) regarding use of the term “bobos” in comments such as yours, David L. (#9). Pretty off-putting, and not at all helpful in engaging in meaningful discussion. Nobody likes to be stereotyped, and stereotypes are nearly always inaccurate and mostly useful in perpetuating we/they conflict.
I’m swamped with work today and not much time to comment. But I’m the one who started using the shorthand ‘bobo’ here and I think David L was following my lead.
I just feel compelled to defend any poor helpless lawyer who happens to wander in here.
Hey lighten up. David Brooks coined the “Bobo” term. “Bobos in Paradise” is hardly scathing. It’s a sort of affectionate, bemused look at the Bobo world.
If I were to rank all groups of people in order of how deserving they are of victim status, I’d place Bobos towards the bottom, right before people with enormous trust funds, or women who are prettier than Kathryn Veta Jones.
Keep it up, David L.
This would be one heck of a topic for a F2F salon… a conversation in which I would love to participate.
John S., you are welcome to discuss whatever you wish at the upcoming F2F Northfield social gathering May 20 at Froggy Bottoms, Happy Hour, 4-6 p.m. and beyond. But I think you meant SALOON, instead of salon! Bobos welcome, too.
My first experience of the term ‘bobo’ was here, when Griff previously suggested that half of the townsfolk might in fact be bobos. My first reaction was about the same as when I first heard “macaca” - that is, I have no idea what that word is, but I’m pretty sure it’s not a compliment.
Now, a minimum of investigation reassured me that bobo is nothing like macaca, but it still comes off as a smug, dismissive, and just a bit demeaning term. And again, one that artificially imposes an false us-versus-them divide on what is i fact a very diverse group of individuals in this town.
Hey Curt,
Just to be clear: I’m not talking about awarding anyone victim status. I’m just suggesting that 1) people often defy easy categorization, and 2) nice words can go a long way in helping people get along with each other. Anyway, my comments were more directed towards Griff than towards David L.
And didn’t this thread start by talking about the problem of snobbery and condescension?
Thanks for the saves, Griff and Curt. I understood that bobo = bourgeois + bohemian = self-interested liberal idealist.
Susan, no, John meant ‘salon‘ like the Utne Reader salons.
I don’t think anyone who graduated with a masters or even a doctorate before 2005 has anything to be snooty about.
Ok… I have 5 diplomas from Uncle Sam’s school of hard knocks (5 honorable discharges / enlistments), a 2 year Associates Degree, a 4 year Bachelor’ s Degree with a triple major, Microsoft Certifications and I am working on my MBA in Information Technology Management.
What does that make me? Well, for one thing, broke from Student Loans.
But by no means do I feel that I am elitist, a bobo, or a snob. I am just a person who worked very damn hard to get where I am. It has taken me over 25 years to get where I am, and I am not finished. I have lots of check marks in the been there, done that column, but there will always be someone else that has done more, or is a little smarter.
Does that make me any better than anyone else? NO.
Does that make me proud of who I am personally? DAMN RIGHT.
Just because I didn’t make an arbitrary date, or an arbitrary standard, does that mean that I don’t get to join the super secret Northfield club that meets after dark on the Riverwalk on every third Thursday after a full moon?
I didn’t make the 2005 deadline, but raising a family was more important. The goals I have are MY GOALS, not the goals I need to make it to a certain level, or be a certain level of standing in the community.
My point is this. I consider myself a born and raised “blue collar” Montanan. I clawed and scratched and scraped every day since I emancipated myself at 16. However, today, I work a very technical white collar job.
I do my best to judge no one, as I have been there. I have done janitorial. I have had massively exciting careers in the food service industry. I have been on food stamps & public assistance. I have lived on PBJ and top ramen for 2 weeks, and walked to work because I had no money for gas or insurance. But I grew from all of those experiences, and learned that I did not want to do those things for the rest of my life.
Bozo’s, Bobo’s, snobs… its all a label. Everyone needs to look at yourself and how you conduct your life. Treat everyone as you would want to be treated. There is way too much BS in the world. We need more kindness.
Maybe I have not lived here long enough (Dec 2001) or drank enough of the Kool-Aid yet, but I don’t think I have a particular bias against Faribault or Dundas, or Farmington for that matter. I have my opinions, but I don’t look down on those that live there. I work in St. Paul, and I know that the big city life is not for me.
Having a college degree makes me educated. It doesn’t automatically make me a snob. I don’t remember that course being taught in school.
I am just afraid that if we start throwing the word snob around… the next thing you know, someone will say that we are “geographically or economically racist”. If you go and look up “racist” and “snob”… they have some disconcerting similarities…
As for the part of “snob” that reads… one who blatantly imitates, fawningly admires, or vulgarly seeks association with those regarded as social superiors… well, no one here is my social superior. You are all my friends, neighbors, peers, and countrymen. I do not have the time to go chasing any perceived “cliques” here in town. I have too many other higher priority tasks that need to be done, like raising my family.
This is turning into a very unstructured rant, so that must mean I should end it.
I guess that all I am trying to say is that we are all human beings, and as such, we are all equal on this earth and in the eyes of god. Just because you have a few more bucks, live 8 miles north, or two miles south, clean floors, or program computers, you are no better than your fellow man.
Everyone needs to move past labels, and all the rhetoric. You need to get up in the morning, and do some good for humanity with the skills you have learned and been given. Life is too short to be a snob.
God bless you all, and thank you for this lively discussion. I really wish that I could discuss this more over a couple of beers. It is much easier to debate the issues face to face.
So Endeth the Rant… I apologized if I strayed too far off topic.
Griff, hmmm, can John S. T. get the beer he wants at that salon you referred to? A saloon may be better for F 2 F beers…
John,
Nice rant.
This whole thing centers around self image, me thinks. There has been so much emphasis put on this aspect of ourselves that I think we sometimes lose sight of reality. I just read a funny about how we were in the ’50’s. One comment said that back then, we had to accomplish something before we had a right to feel good about ourselves. This is a self defeating attitude that has caused all sorts of problems for people and equated value to accomplishment. The pendulum has swung so far the other way now that people are content with having a good self image and never accomplishing anything in their lives. So there must be a place of balance in our lives that we don’t think more highly of ourselves than we ought to. If we equate value with accomplishment, then what about the unfortunate who cannot accomplish anything because of physical/mental disabilities?
In our society, high value is put on accomplishment, be it getting good grades in school, playing sports proficiently or being successful in business. There is a place for accomplishments to be rewarded, but this in no way should elevate a person to a place of “greater value.” Physical differences and abilities are just that- differences. It is difficult, though, for some to be able to separate their “value” from their “accomplishments”, especially if one is of the male gender. This is one of the reasons many men die off quickly after retirement- They no longer have “value” because they no longer work.
The unfortunate result of competitiveness in our society is to separate people of different disciplines rather than unite them. There seems to be an innate part in people to want to be the “best”. This, of course, means that everyone else is something less than the best. Then come the labels to try to “define” the differences. It is an unfortunate part of human nature. You can see it demonstrated amongst two year olds on the playground. Is there hope for this state? I believe so, and I see it demonstrated in the lives of the people in the church I attend.
So, how’s that for a rant?
Oops! Forgot my last thought, which (I hope) relates back to the thread. Is there “elitism” in Northfield? Yes. But I think it is just because we are a normal collection of people, and, just like the two year olds on the playground, we are not going to outgrow some tendencies. The healthy part comes in recognizing it and dealing with it in our own lives when it rears its ugly head.
Some years back, a friend of ours observed that, in Northfield, he was just a person, but in Faribault, he got stared at. (He was not a participant in our local ethnic homogeny.) I certainly wouldn’t have moved to Dundas or Faribault, and the community is a big part of the reason.
It’s not that I particularly object to people without college educations, or working-class people, or whatever. It is that they are very likely to object to me. In the late 80s, as I was on my way to college one day, I was accosted (seriously, that is EXACTLY the right word) by a rather drunk man who informed me that all this computer stuff wasn’t a real job, and you couldn’t make a living doing computers, and education was stupid. He wasn’t violent, so I guess I don’t really object that much, but I think I’d be uncomfortable in a community with many more people who felt that way.
Elitism is all over, and I think it’s odd that people seem to assume it’s one-sided. Like racism, like sexism, it goes both ways; we tend to view the groups we identify with as superior to other groups. The assumption that it is the people with the college educations doing the looking-down-on is a sort of implausible assumption, really — but I suppose it’d seem natural to a cluster of people many of whom have college degrees, no?
I pondered this a great deal last night.
Let me pose this question. Is it “Elitism” if you have made a decision against a certain career path or area to live?
I ask this, because as I grew up in Montana, I found that I did not want to be a cowboy, and that living in a very small town was not going to allow me to grow as a person. There was not enough of an economic base in order to support the type of career I wanted. I really did not want to work at the Sugar Beet plant, or at the oil refinery, or the grain elevator. All of these are good jobs, but it was not really what I wanted to do. I wanted to pursue technology, and the only way out was to join the military.
I would move back to Montana in a heartbeat, IF I had the financial resources to do so, and Jake was off to school. The economy is still not where it needs to be.
So, does moving to Northfield make me a snob? Well, if you are a resident of Two Dot, and visiting Northfield… it looks like the big city. There are many opportunities here, many nice things, and many nice people. Northfield could be quite overwhelming.
Could we be percieved as snobs by outsiders?
Probably. Many of the folks around here are kind of self absorbed. I know that many days, I am in my own little world, as I am somewhat sleep deprived, and just trying to get done what needs to get done.
However, I am always willing to stop, and offer assistance or a kind word to a tourist, and help them on their way to the NAG, or the Grand, or any of our amazing “pearls” that we have to enjoy.
I don’t think we are elite. I just think that many in the community have worked very hard to build what we have, and we are DAMN PROUD of Northfield.
Just because we may have two colleges, and our demographic skews slightly towards higher education does not make us any better than everyone else.
It’s 5:20 AM. Time for some caffeine. No Latte for me, but I will however enjoy my fair trade peace coffee from Just Foods. Thats not elite, thats just trying to do some good in the world as well.
Make it a GREAT DAY people!
“Peace, Love, Recycle”
-J
Nice post, Griff. Though my background is different, I resonated with Brendon’s comments (#5) and with Griff’s original post, but the latter more in the sense that I know I’m capable of arrogance and bias towards those who are not like me. We all pick and choose where we go based on our comfort levels. I’ve gone to Chapati a dozen times but never to the Eagle’s Club or Diamond Dave’s or the Legion.
On the other hand, I go to both Cub and Just Food. I go to a church that has a broad socioeconomic cross-section of the community, and I’ve attended religious retreats with evangelicals who do not share my progressive views.
Like many of us, my background is a mixture of classes: My paternal grandfather was the chief sewer engineer with the City of Minneapolis and had a college degree. His son, my father, however, nearly became a plumber and ended up living and working as a teacher in the western suburbs of Minneapolis, surrounded by wealthy business folk. Our trips were camping trips while my friends went skiing in Colorado.
My maternal grandfather was a working-class union member who worked for the Duluth Missabe and Iron Range Railroad as a clerk and liked FDR. His daughter, my mother, was able to attend college at Hamline and become a nurse.
While I might have been relatively high status in much of Minnesota (though not at Wayzata or Woodhill Country Clubs), when I attended Princeton University to get a Ph.D. in English, I found myself on the lower end of the social totem pole. A housemate described my cooking (which included hotdish) as “blue collar.” I drove a rusting Dodge Aspen station wagon. I had never been to Cape Cod or the Hamptons and found myself gravitating to more working-class places like New Brunswick (home of Rutgers University) I got sick and tired of seeing Mercedes cars, but I still enjoyed having friends from many different backgrounds.
I did not get a permanent job in academia and am now associated with it largely through my wife. A former insider, I stand on the outside, and I appreciate the perspective this gives me.
One other thought: let’s not forget the hatred fomented by “anti-snobs” who label those whom they don’t like as “tree-huggers” or other labels. That is a powerful force in our country.
Now, lacking a good segue, forgive me for bringing up nonmotorized transportation again, but I’m working a lot on that issue and tend to see things through its prism. It has been indirectly criticized here as a “bobo” preoccupation. My question: is the old guy in suspenders who rides his bike from the Legion to downtown at about 5 mph a bobo? No. Should he have a safe place to ride? Yes. Do I even know his name? No, but I have waved to him.
Let’s all drop the labels and reach across the divide to shake hands. That includes me.
Sentence two of my post should read “…towards those who are NOT like me.” Sorry about that.
I fixed it, Bill.
This conversation is really forcing me to think deeper about these issues. Damn you people. I was content with shallow thinking.
The comments about the tendencies of all groups to be judgmental about other groups who are the slightest bit different rings true. I’ll often hear BMW motorcycle riders dissing the Harley crowd, and vice versa, for example.
I just skimmed the Wikipedia entries on classism, snob, liberal elite, and elitism and found them helpful, especially the latter in the section titled Elitism as a pejorative term, since, as Tony indicated in his comment above, other types of elitism are highly desirable.
For me, the Northfield elitism that bugs me the most is evident in (I’m paraphrasing now from the Wikipedia entry on elitism) people who sometimes act as if their views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight because of their intellectual and/or educational status. And I notice it most, of course, in discussion (formal and informal) about civic issues.
I think the first time I noticed it was when a group of us parents approached the school board back in the early 80s, asking that the district create an alternative elementary school. The condescension of some of the well-educated board members was shocking. The attitude was on the order of “You want a choice? How could you possibly be unhappy with our elementary schools that we’ve created? We know what’s best for children.” Result: Prairie Creek Community School, originally a private school, now (hooray!) a public charter school.
So we need to be on our guard for both creeping classism and intellectual elitism, not with namecalling or sarcasm when we notice it in others but maybe with a gentle, understanding nudge, knowing that we’re often blind to it in ourselves.
Wow! This is one of the best threads you have started, Griff. I can see a common denominator in the posts I have seen so far. It is the admission that we all have tendencies toward elitism. Now, wouldn’t that be an interesting quality to rally around for unity in the city?! There are definitely differences in experience and convictions among all of us. Our choice is how we allow those differences to color our attitudes toward one another. Do we acknowledge them for what they are and choose unity in our relationships, or do we use them for separation? The choice is ours.
There is a difference between the “classism” and “elitism”. One Faribault resident described it to me this way, “Faribault is the valley of reality between two mountains of conceit”. (i.e. Northfield and Owatonna).
David L,
I’m not following your point.
That seems to me to be a rather elitist statement in its own way, Dave L.
It also doesn’t clarify the difference between classism and elitism. Not sure what “conceit” means in this context. The “conceit” of feeling superior because of class? Educational attainment? Skill? Vocation?
Faribault is no more “real”, no less heaped up with its own manner of “conceit”, than Northfield or Owatonna.
Here’s what frustrates me: Kids are told to educate themselves all their lives - to better themselves, to better our society, to be engaged in our civil society in a productive, meaningful way - then, after expending this effort, getting a good education, getting involved, you are told that you are “elitist”.
Perhaps this particular Faribault resident would like an apology? If so, for what?
You could get to know someone, be the nicest person in the world, be genuinely caring, and then, when that new friend finds out you’re from (insert “elitist” town here), you would miraculously be considered “elitist”? Doesn’t follow.
For a period of time, Northfield’s motto was, “A Special Place”. Even for Northfielders that proved to be a little too elitist. Nevertheless, the attitude still remains.
So community pride or positive civic mottoes are elitist? Again, it doesn’t follow.
I could see the case had Northfield’s motto been “Everywhere Else Sucks”.
We alwasy get into a fix when we start comparing ourselves or claiming we are something special when given that we are all special, what have you done lately? Or have you done anything lately to back up your claim to specialness? I think there was a popular song a few years back asking
the same question..what have you done for me lately? Lets now live on our laurels or our ancestors laurels, if that is even possible…not knowing what laurels are….I’ll be back….okay, here you go…1: an evergreen shrub or tree (Laurus nobilis of the family Lauraceae, the laurel family) of southern Europe with small yellow flowers, fruits that are ovoid blackish berries, and evergreen foliage once used by the ancient Greeks to crown victors in the Pythian games —called also bay, sweet bay2: a tree or shrub that resembles the true laurel; especially : mountain laurel3 a: a crown of laurel awarded as an honor b: a recognition of achievement : honor —usually used in plural.
So, as long as we don’t rest on our evergreen shrub too long, everything is cool.
should have been not instead of ‘now live on our laurels’ above
Brendon- Good points. I think this relates back to personal attitudes, not necessarily a demographic.
David L.- I lived in Owatonna for 16 years and in Northfield now for 12 yrs. There are two different bases perceived for the elitist accusations here- Owatonna for their industry, Northfield for their education. The year the Kaplan brothers sold Owatonna Tool Co. to SPx Corp., it was said there were more millionairs per capita in Owatonna, because of the stock distributons, than in any other city in the country. I don’t know if this assesment is correct, but it was a point of pride for many people. I personally knew Buzz Kaplan, Charlie Buxton ( Federated Ins.), Jerry Wenger (Wenger Corp.) because I did work for them in their homes. Each of these men, to use an old expression from back home, were common as an old sock. There were people in the town who perceiverd them to be elitist, but they didn’t know them personally.
I think this attitude will be common in any city between those who have achieved high levels of success and those who have not. What makes a difference is in the relationships you have with people, and whether they are a threat to your own sense of well being. I think it goes back to the curent Northfield motto, “Cows, Colleges and Contentment.” When a person is content with themselves, there will be no envy. I think it is envy and jealousy that breed discontentment and separation and the accusation of elitism. And these are attitudes that each of us have self control over. As we relate to people, our own biases become evident.
I like Griff’s definition of elitism in post #30. I agree with everything he said in the blog and the subsequent posts. Let’s analyze whether Northfield is snobby, and if so why. Call it elitism, classism, bobo-ism, or snobbiness, I think there is a lot to what Griff is saying.
Northfielders are perceived as being snobs by most surrounding communities. Griff asked why that is so; and if the reputation is deserved. My question is whether we want to change that reputation.
I think even a homeless woman can be a snob or an elist, if she’s talking with the right person about the right topic. Elitism/snobbishness is taking pride ‘to the next level,’ perhaps.
Maybe This: I’m a Swede and it’s great, and it’s cool if you are Bohemian.
Not: I’m a Swede and too bad you are a Bohemian. Or not this either: I’m a Swede and I don’t care that you are a Bohemian. etc.
Griff might have told his co-workers that it’s not nice to say such a thing about Northfielders.
As long as Northfield has a different socioeconomic character from its neighbors, it will be considered ‘different.’ As long as part of that difference is that we have two colleges, more liberals, and a higher number of Ph.D’s than do our neighbors, that difference will probably be characterized as a derogatory description of Northfield as ‘elitism’ or ’snobbery.’
Without a significant social and demographic shift, both that difference and that stereotype will persist. Fostering positive political relations with our neighbors would help, but I wouldn’t expect it to make the stereotype go away.
As for the question of whether Northfielders of different stripes can avoid being condescending or snobbish towards each other, I would hope - as both John Thomas and John George have suggested - that we can all try to balance our personal pride with a good-sized dollop of humility, and a healthy respect for the opinions and needs of others. It’s an ongoing process, and I’m still working at it.
In Holly’s comment, #41, she mentions people talking about being better than others, and while I am not in favor of such blather, I do not mind it nearly as much as people taking action against others by leaving them out of the processes of government and public input on private matters where invited. This kind of thing is heavy in Northfield.
I admit I have been guilty of being a Chicago snob, but only because I had been overlooked and purposely shoved off to the side so many times in this town that I took to drawing on my past experiences, as I was not to be allowed any future here in town. Be it because I don’t drink, I wore a skirt above my knees, I am an artist of which there are already too many here, or because I don’t have children, I don’t attend church in Northfield, because I am not born here, etc, etc, etc, all things which have been called out to me by others and not ideas living only in my poor old brain, there are too many things to overcome before I die to continue trying to fit in.
I hope you all work it out, even if it takes longer than I will be around to do it. Oh, it’s okay to protect your hill, but not from people who wish to do you no harm and perhaps even add a flower or two to the garden.
I think that the society that we live in, that’s perpetuated by government, the media, yes schools too, etc, is one where we learn at a very young age that there are “winners” and there are “losers.” Sports teams, spelling bees, grades, competition, “climbing the corporate ladder” - I think that if you look back and see these things, then it’s not a big stretch to think that we can have judgements, class distinctions, snobbery, etc.
I think that within all of the struggle to become popular, liked, a winner, known, loved, important, not invisible, etc - that unfortunately we can all be trapped with MANY MANY unmet needs. This is when we lash out, act ’snobby’, behave badly, commit violence to one another, etc.
Last year I went to see Marshall Rosenberg, the creator of Nonviolent Communication, speak at St. Thomas University. Marshall stated that “any violence committed to another is the tragic result of unmet needs.”
I think that maybe a way through these distinctions is to start asking ourselves and one another these questions:
What do we care deeply about?
What are our deepest needs?
What needs are not being met?
How can we build a community where collective needs are placed on an even level with merit, competition, the “marketplace”, etc?
Should our needs be put first?
Do the structures of our institutions within our system perpetuate our divisions and our consistent unmet needs?
Discuss.
Nicely stated, Scott.
Bright,
1. How are we residents of the hill to evaluate accurately who means us no harm?
2. How can we be confident that the Buckthorn and Eurasian Water Milfoil that they plant here won’t prosper so well that they choke off the indigenous plants?
Bright, you get pretty serious sometimes. Naw, that’s not how it is… there’s a few close-minded people out there, but they are everywhere. Unfortunately the close-minded also have open mouths. Sorry about that.
Scott said:
That kind of thinking, although of noble intent, breeds insecurity. We might look at it like this (and teach our kids to look at it like this):
Winners won a game, and losers dared to play. All are equal.
I am sensitive to this since (as a kid) I played on both boys and girls’ soccer teams. The guys who coached the girls said things like “Good job. You’re just doing your best. You’re not losers if you lose.” That sounds good unless you compare that to the coach of the boys’ team: “Get out there and win. You’re playing like girls. I’m going to sit you unless you get up off your butt and start playing.” (something crass like that)
I decided the message about trying to win wasn’t the evil, but rather it is what we say about effort and losing that is important.
Sidetracked. Yes, back to whether Northfielders are snobs. That includes all of Northfield, doesn’t it?
You will never find–well not in Northfield at any rate–a better exposition of the mechanics of snobbery than Dr. Seuss’ _Sneeches_.
Probably about one percent of the human population is self-confident enough to rely on their own character and perceptions of the world, without subscribing to some variant of herd mentality. Not necessarily including myself in that one percent, by the way.
Northfield’s reputation for snobbishness is only partly deserved. The city functions as a de facto gated community for libruls–so what? In no way is it abnormal for people to congregate with persons whom they find interesting/sympathetic. There is a gravitational center for ‘cultural elite’ types because there are a lot of them already here.
What drives me nuts is when people come here because they are fleeing somewhere else (e.g. inner-ring suburbs), then lose no time trying to make the town be more like their dearly missed inner-ring suburb. I am unwilling to accept the ‘conveniences’ of suburban life at the expense of having to drive everywhere for everything.
People who have stayed in Northfield have sacrificed some of the opportunities available in larger population centers, somewhat intentionally with a view to maintaining a certain style of life. A fairly quiet style of life. Mostly, a fairly live-and-let-live style of life. We resent it when big shots come around and threaten our preserve.
Nate-Not a reader of Dr. Seuss, but I will answer your questions that our in my email but not here at LoGRoNo, so here they are…
1. How are we residents of the hill to evaluate accurately who means us no harm?
2. How can we be confident that the Buckthorn and Eurasian Water Milfoil that they plant here won’t prosper so well that they choke off the indigenous plants?
Although you may not accurately be able to determine who means no harm, you might not hang someone before they committed a crime. It is very hard to live in a community where you have come to do honest work and contribute richly when you are always being turned away. (I have a couple of good stories about living here, but they are few and far between the other ones.)
If that doesn’t suit Northfielders, they ought to do two things…first quit trying to separate “outsiders” from their money and donations and volunteer work from the person who is giving those things. And then,
shut yourselves up in a compound like the Branch Davidians.
When you have an isolationists heart, you ought not to invite the public.
Correcting an error of not seeing the questions herein. Sorry.
While I’m at it, who has read the “Beans of Egypt, Maine”? There’s an eye opener. You’ll never look at classism or elitism the same, again.
Allow me to expound. I come from one of the most successfully integrated neighborhoods in the country, and the military also housed their 5th Army families there, with a major 20,000 employee univeristy with students from just about every country in the world. We never got into this kind of discussion because where there is openess and community, there is a space for everyone. No one complains of getting choked out. And although there were probably ten times the population there, the crime rate was extremely low…and except for the daytime buses, it was very quiet.
Holly, your comment about “Beans” made me think of another book about class, “Limbo”, by Alfred Lubrano.
Bill Ostrem (#28), after reading your comment about your experience at Princeton, I bet you’d appreciate this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Limbo-Blue-Collar-Roots-White-Collar-Dreams/dp/0471714399/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208958513&sr=8-1
“Limbo” looks interesting. Thanks, Curt.
Here’s a brief interview with Lubrano on NPR:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1479369
Curt,
Interesting piece. Thanks.
Curt,
Thanks for the link to Lubrano’s book on “straddlers” - people who are between two worlds. In my case this was as much regional as it was class. Midwesterners feel this in the Northeastern U.S., Southerners probably even more so.
One thing that can foster a sense of superiority is having traveled or lived somewhere else, especially somewhere else that claims to be superior in some way to where you are now. I fall into this trap myself, having lived in Chicago, New Jersey, and California, besides Minnesota - also having traveled in Europe.
The challenge is to share with people who live here what you’ve seen elsewhere, then see if agreement can be reached to make improvements or changes here. But one problem is that people don’t have access to the same experiences of having lived in place X or Y.
Griff presented this definition of elites in comment #30: “people who sometimes act as if their views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight because of their intellectual and/or educational status.” Webster’s defines elitism as “1. leadership or rule by an elite; 2. the selectivity of the elite, esp. snobbery; 3. consciousness of being or belonging to an elite.”
I think Griff’s definition of elitism is too narrowly defined by “intellectual” or “educational status” elites, though this does plague Northfield. What other elites are there? Elites of race, money, profession, status, power, ancestry, property, violence, nationality, language, etc. Let’s not forget those too, and don’t be too beguiled by those who tell you to beware of “elites” without recognizing the elites they belong to themelves.
Perhaps some of the frustration certain people have with the educational status/intellectual elites in Northfield is that those elites lay claim to power and influence that other elites want to leave for themselves.
Finally, it might be interesting to have a community meeting with a skilled facilitator that poses some of the questions that Scott brought up in comment #44. Don’t laugh at that idea too quickly. It might be very helpful; it would certainly help a group of people to get to know each other better.
It would also be interesting for people to read and discuss “Main Street,” by Sinclair Lewis, his story of Gopher Prairie, Minnesota. In what ways is Northfield like and unlike Gopher Prairie? What characters do we identify with and why? You see the old English teacher in me coming out.
Man, I really wish I would have started to read this when it was first posted.
Funny enough, I had a discussion about this in my politics class this morning, because about 80% of my class came from small towns in the midwest, some of which were offended by Obama’s comment, some of which were completely uninformed, and some of which understood this comment as one made on stereotypes that a lot of city folk have.
I personally have lived in all different types of living situations. I have spent a good third of my life in the city, a third of it in the suburbs, and a third of it in small town northfield.
I wish I started reading this earlier because I found myself skimming the 57 very intelligent comments on it, because I simply don’t have time in the hour between my classes.
But I would, however, like to commend Anthony Pierce on his short and simple, but convincing comment.
“I wanted the best doctor to repair my knee, am I elitist? I want the best person to be president, not someone that would have fun with my at a BBQ. (I stole that from bill mahr :P)”
I watched that part of Bill Mahr as well…
And I agree 100%.
I think the problem is that we are not elitist enough because Americans are getting so concerned with being “politically correct” and always wanting to be somewhere in the middle. You know.. “I want my steak and eggs with the steak medium, and eggs over medium, and I’m going to pay a medium price, leave a medium tip, because I am an average joe in the middle class that drives moderatly above the speed limit.”
I don’t think it would hurt us to have someone smarer than the rest of us in office. I also don’t think it would hurt us to have someone that has more money. Since if they have a lot of money and started out with very little (such as Obama’s family), they obviously know how to handle money which would be really useful in our receeding economy.
The main reason I remain an Obama supporter despite all of the mud on his face thrown by Hilary (mud created by the Republicans GIVEN to Hilary), is because he’s a radical and because he’s willing to make some changes that have been needed for years.
As far as Northfield goes…I’m not going to worry about offending people from Dundas and Faribault by saying I’m better than them in some ways. There’s a little bit of truth to stereotypes, otherwise people wouldn’t use them.
Just as Apple Valley probably says they’re better than us.
Maybe people just need to get some thicker skin.
that was quite a bit longer than I inted on writing.
whoops.
Does anyone except a snob debate the definition of snobbery? (Yours truly included.)
David…sheer genius. Thank you.
(”Am I a snob?” seems to be the intellectual version of “Do these pants make me look fat?” The person asking usually wants reassurance, not truth.)
Great conversation! It’s making me recall my experience coming from a lower-middle-class family and neighborhood and lucking into the opportunity to attend a wonderful private high school with kids from the wealthiest neighborhoods in San Francisco, which was exciting but pretty intimidating. When I talked with my old friends about these new classmates, and mentioned where they lived because that seemed new and different and kind of interesting, I was accused of becoming a snob. So I stopped talking about them.
Then I went to an Ivy League university, and quickly and forever learned not to talk very freely about that unless it was particularly relevant or when with others from a similar academic milieu, because it became clear that just by mentioning where one went to college, one was seen as bragging, or name-dropping. (Never mind that I’d received major financial aid and worked for the college food service, unloading dishwashers and flipping burgers, all the way through school.) That phenomenon was even true in a different form while we were in college: I remember kids from Beverly Hills who said they were from L.A., because they knew otherwise they’d immediately be judged.
Having different experiences and even just learning new vocabulary changes your perceptions and your interpretations and the way you express both. You can try “keeping it real” with the folks in the old neighborhood, or the folks in your new town that are like the folks you grew up with, and you can understand where they’re coming from, and maybe some of them are still your very best friends, but it can be harder to be in the same mental place. And they, quite naturally, will find it harder to be in your mental place.
And that’s not snobbism (not that snobbism doesn’t exist, of course it does, but it’s not inherent in the situation I’m describing), that’s just the reality of the fact that we are all shaped by our experiences and environments — but it seems quite a few people insist that it is snobbism, and I think that insistence can be a psychological defense mechanism that is quite understandable: “I feel that society judges me to be in some way inferior to this other person or group who has XYZ experiences or credentials that I don’t have, so I assume that this other person or group thinks that they are superior to me, which allows me to call them snobs and thus dismiss their views, along with any implication of inferiority.”
But on the other hand…
While it may be hard for anyone from either side of the aisle (Faribault/Northfield; working stiff/”boho”; white collar/blue or pink collar; college educated/high school educated; financially struggling/financially stable; etc. etc. etc.) to be in the same mental place as their counterpart on the other side, we do well to try to connect with each other across those divides, and learn from each other, and explain our own perspectives and try to understand others’ differing perspectives, and be kind to each other, and try not to label and judge each other (even though that is a universal human instinct, as other commentors have discussed), because making that effort makes for a cohesive, livable society.
I was saddened by the story of the talented student who didn’t feel that pursuing a skilled trade was an acceptable choice for him in this community. That kind of elitism I do see around here — reading the graduation supplement each year to see what everyone’s plans are (college or not, what kind of college, etc.) reveals the socioeconomic and educational divides in this town pretty darn well.
Hey, why am I a cabbage again? I used to have a picture here…
Whatever the textbook definition, it seems the word “elitist” has become an easy way to disarm an argument — amazingly, even if the argument was made by a black man raised by a working-class single mom in 1960s America — without judging its merits.
As others in this thought-provoking discussion have pointed out, Americans seem leery of (even antagonistic toward) people who are smarter than we are. Unfortunately, this is most evident when we’re deciding whether a person is fit to lead the country. Consider how Al Gore was pejoratively portrayed as the “smartest kid in school” in 2000. Consider how much attention the Obama “bitter” bit has gotten versus, say, issues that matter.
We should be civil and respectful to all people, regardless of class, race or education. No doubt. Something I need to remind myself. Yet I think it’s important to accept that some people are smarter than we are. And I don’t think we should embrace the idea all opinions are equally valid — even if many people share them. Because there is a lot of evidence that we in the masses should raise our game rather than demand that the smartest among us lower theirs.
As author Susan Jacoby has pointed out, more than three years into the Iraq war, only 23 percent of those with some college education could locate Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Israel on a map.
As author Bill McKibben has pointed, some 85 percent of Americans consider themselves Christians. But only 40 percent of them can name any five the Ten Commandments. And twelve percent of Americans think Joan of Arc was Noah’s wife.
Being president is the most demanding and complex job in the country. Shouldn’t we elect an obscenely smart person to do it?
I know I expect the person on my ballot to be several degrees smarter than I am.
Regarding socio-economic factors that might supply some basis for Northfield’s sense of superiority over neighboring communities (based on CNN/Money’s ‘Best Places to Live’ index):
Northfield has higher family income than Faribault and Owatonna but lower than Farmington. Higher levels of ’some college’ than Faribault and Owatonna but lower than Farmington. Its racial diversity index is higher than Farmington and Owatonna but lower than Faribault. Northfield student test scores were higher than the other three communities.
So it seems that what Northfield can be ‘proud’ of is the test scores of its children. Then again maybe Owatonna should be proud of itself in this regard as well. With a ’some college’ level 15 percentage points lower than Northfield, their test score index is only about 8 per centage points lower than here. Maybe even Faribault has cause for pride…test scores slightly above the state average with an immigrant population well above the state average.
Taking a new tack: Rochester has a ’some college’ percentage number essentially the same as Northfield. In raw numbers they probably have 5 times as many B.A. and higher degrees. Do they get accused of snobbery by neighboring communities? Maybe…but I don’t think they have the reputation in that regard that Northfield seems to have. Why is that? Could it be that people who hold technical and engineering degrees are less likely to be snobs than those holding liberal arts degrees? Without any proof of that point, I’ll say, nevertheless, that is my experience. Maybe it stems from knowing a little about a lot, opposed to a lot about a little. Maybe it’s the nature of study of subjective versus objective realities. Or is it that holders of liberal arts degrees tend to be liberal politically? I don’t think that liberals are necessarily snobs/elitists, but let’s face it…they sure get accused of it a lot.
Taking another tack: Maybe Northfield’s snobbishness is historic. I can well imagine the town’s uptight New England, and dour Norwegian settlers looking down their noses at Faribault’s fun loving, hard drinking Frenchmen…not to mention the Irish in Farmington.
All that being said I’ll admit to being born and raised in Faribault…so don’t take any of this too seriously.
Tom- You said, “… know I expect the person on my ballot to be several degrees smarter than I am.” I can understand your expectations with this statement, but consider this perspective. Is there a difference between educational accomplishments and wisdom? I believe there is. I’m most impressed with a person who readily admits that he doesn’t know everything, but he’s willing to learn. I define that as wisdom.
It reminds me of the story about a boyscout, an old priest and the smartest man in the world who went on an airplane flight in a small plane. The plane developed engine trouble, and the pilot said they had to bail out. The problem was that there was only three parachutes. The pilot said he had a wife and five kids, so he needed one to save himself to take care of them. He grabbed one and jumped out of the plane. The smartest man in the world said he needed one because he was going to a very high level meeting to solve the world’s problems. He grabbed one and jumped out, leaving the priest and the boyscout with one parachute. The priest, being magnanamous, told the boyscout to take the parachute. He said that he had had a long productive life and that the boyscout had his whole life ahead of him. The boyscout replied, “Don’t worry, monsignor. We will both live. The smartest man in the world just grabbed my napsack and jumped out.”
I guess it doesn’t matter how much you know, so much as how to use what you do know. I have met people who are educated beyond their intelligence.
We have a motto where I work that says this- “A customer does not care how much you know until they know how much you care.” I still believe that snobism and elitism are a matter of attitude which is then acted out by the bahavior. And I would go so far as to say there is no justification for the attitude.
When it comes to voting for intelligent people, I am against it. Now, I guess I will have to explain why I said that. Once a man or woman or politician gets to Washington, DC or the state level, they better be ready to throw aside their smarts and get to work on getting along with the powers that be, or no pet program is going anywhere fast.
I would love to hear someone disagree with that. I truly wish it were not true.
Bright, I’m not sure I follow your last (#67) comment. I think we need to send intelligent people in office. However, we do not always do that. What we do not need are rubber stamp party hacks. If a politican cannot quickly give 4-5 examples of good ideas from the opposing party, and examples when they voted in support of them, then they either are not doing their job properly, or they are not smart enough to give thoughtful analysis of legislation. The third possibility would be that the other side doesn’t have any good ideas….but that leads back to the beginning, and a failure to recognize reasonable plans and policies from the other parties.
Regarding snobs in Northfield, I concur with David L’s thought (#60)..when you have to ask….
Thanks for your reply to my comment, John. To clarify, in that case I intended the word “degrees” as a synonym for “levels” or “standards” — not diplomas earned. I think the country deserves an intellectually curious and exceptionally bright president. Makes little difference to me whether the person, like Obama, was president of the Harvard Law Review or like Lincoln, self-taught.
I disagree with your statement that “it doesn’t matter how much you know …” Especially if you’re the president. Hasn’t the current officeholder taught that much?
What I meant was that Obama is going to get his toes run over in DC.
He is new, he has ideas, but no friends. He hasn’t made any real allies.
Who has come out for him besides Richie Daley?
Anyway ideas don’t power make. Anybody can have an idea. It’s more about patting each other on the back and watching each other’s backs and backing each other in the clinches…it’s about the money. Follow the money trail.
If I am in DC and my constituency back home wants to stay on the say,
being paid for not growing rice, and the other party wants to propose a
bill to take away that subsidy, what do I do? If I vote against my home town people’s wishes or needs, no one will work with me on my good ideas later on. If I vote with the other party, I loose my next term in office to one who promises to work to keep the subsidy or get it back. A magical third
solution might work, but who will take the chance?
And this thread has drifted so that it really needs to be in the Presidential candidates thread.
Bill Ostrem: “But one problem is that people don’t have access to the same experiences of having lived in place X or Y.”
Agreed. A lazy parochialism is killing this country.
I heard someone yesterday assert that the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are lviing better than they ever did in their homelands.
You would never hear such a comment from a cosmopolitan, unless it was a calculated lie.
Regarding snobs, I realize I am an anti snob snob. And as such, I apologize if I ever made anyone feel bad for being so snobby. : )
.
I had dinner last night with a 74 year old who grew up here, left, and came back for retirement. He told a story about about when he was a high school hurdler he came up against a faster Faribault boy who always beat him. That is, until the district meet when they were seniors. The Faribault boy went out drinking the night before the meet and performed poorly because of his hangover…this allowing my dinner companion to win. He completed the story with…”But you know how those Faribault guys are…” That was 1952.
Tom- I’m not sure you have connected with what I was saying in my post. I think you are refering to the motto about knowing and caring. Take a look at it again, “A customer does not care how much you know until they know how much you care.” I believe this delineates between elevating yourself above others because of your knowledge rather than showing people you really understand them (or are at least willing to put in the effort to try to understand them). There is a scripture that says knowledge makes arrogant while love edifies. I think this is evident in human behavior. As I have observed arrogant (snobish) people, I have seen this characteristic demonstrated. And those people who have to interact with them usually feel they do not care. This is the point I was trying to get across. Am I understanding your reaction correct;y?
Or, was it my other reference to knowledge? Either way, I’m still making the same point. I believe that empathy and understanding are invaluable in applying knowledge, and I think you are making the same point in your reference to the President.
Sometimes anti-intellectualism arises out of a rejection of complexity. I think it’s important for both leaders and everyday, Main Street citizens to be able to handle complexity, because many issues are not simple, though we would like them to be. Uncritical application of “common sense” and gut reactions may simplify decision-making, but the results can be far from ideal, as I think has been amply demonstrated. For thousands of years it was “common sense” that the sun rises and sets around the earth. Now we know that the earth’s revolutions in its orbit around the sun cause the sun to appear to rise and set — and now that model of the solar system strikes most people as common sense, because they’ve grown up with it.
What strikes people as common sense, in other words, is very much based on what they’ve experienced and been taught and how they understand the world. Some of that “wisdom” is truly universal (e.g., “if I touch that hot stove, it will burn me”), but some of it is not. If I’ve been raised by people with a particular politic