I didn’t attend last night’s Northfield City Council meeting (agenda PDF; photo is from earlier this year).
- I was told this morning by a citizen who attended the meeting that Mayor Lee Lansing opened the meeting but then departed, accompanied by Police Chief Mark Taylor. Anyone have details?
- Who spoke at the public input portion of the meeting on the Capital Improvement Plan (CIP)?
- Did payments get authorized for the investment loss; for legal services?
- Did plan for City Hall renovations get approved?
Was City Admin Al Roder at the meeting, given that he had a job interview in Norfolk, Nebraska at 9 am?
I just spoke to a media person who was there. Lee was visibly intoxicated. Before the meeting, Councilors evidently tried to convince him to not chair the meeting.
Griff, wouldn’t it be more prudent to say Lansing appeared to be impaired? What if he was suffering from a medical condition? ….just trying to be fair, I’m sure the truth will come out.
‘Private Eye’ (British satirical magazine) terms the condition ‘tired & emotional’.
I was at the meeting. Lee announced at the beginning that his father was very ill, likely near death, and asked permission to leave. He asked each council member, consecutively, if it was all right that he leave, which seemed strange. He spoke in a rambling way and repeated himself a couple of times. This gave me the impression that he was intoxicated. “You’re not yourself, Lee,” said Arnie Nelson, summing things up.
When he left, police chief Mark Taylor, who was in the audience, followed him out the door. I was relieved that Taylor was doing so.
Al Roder was not there and Joel Walinski took his place.
At the beginning of the meeting, I gave a presentation of the report from the Task Force on Nonmotorized Transportation. I’m still trying to get the city to put it online. It didn’t appear to be in the electronic version of the packet, though the council members had it.
At the public comment session, one gentleman, whose name I didn’t catch, made an eloquent plea for attention to pedestrian and traffic safety, citing the accident involving his friends the Zauns and near-miss experiences he has had as a pedestrian at 2nd St. and Highway 3 and at 5th and Water.
At the CIP public hearing, Ms. McBride gave an account of the CIP situation, and it was determined that the city is looking at over $50 million of improvements in the next five years. It was a very good presentation, very clear. About four or five people spoke. Eric Johnson argued for repairs of his section of Union St. I spoke and commended the council and city for prioritizing projects. I said I didn’t see anything in it about the Greenway Corridors and asked how they may or may not fit into the plan. (I submitted the question in written form and hope to hear a response.)
I suggested that even if the Greenway Corridors aren’t made a spending priority, steps can be taken to reserve land for future purchase by local governments. For example, the Trust for Public Land (whose regional director, John Horwich, lives in Nerstrand) could buy the land and hold it and governments could buy it from them at a later date
I left after the CIP public hearing.
Curt, I spoke with people who stood next to him and said the smell of alcohol was clearly evident. So at this point, I think it’s fair to say ‘visibly intoxicated.’ He evidently drove to the Council meeting in this condition, which is far more disturbing. I hope friends and family get help on intervening with him. It’s a sad thing but it could turn out to be the best thing that ever happened. Let’s hope.
Griff, with your additional information and Bill’s report, I agree. “Visibly intoxicated” seems fair. Nice report Bill.
Bill, thanks very much for your post #5. Our best wishes and hopes for Mayor Lansing, his father, and their family at this difficult time.
-Patrick and Felicity Enders
The task force on nonmotorized transportation report is now on the city web site here:
http://www.ci.northfield.mn.us/assets/n/NMTTF-Report-2008.pdf
Nfld News posted this story minutes ago: Lansing: Behavior was related to diabetes, not drinking.
I was at the city council meeting last night and I agree with Bill’s assessment of the evening. In answer to Bill’s question, it was Don McGee who spoke of the need for improved pedestrian safety.
I always preferred “under the weather.” Webster’s has both “ILL” and “DRUNK” as synonymous x-refs., so listeners can take their pick.
Is video available. Will it be posted?
If the meeting was last night, it should be on Channel 12 tonight sometime.
They usually play it within 24 hours.
NTV says on the left sidebar that the council video is broadcast at 7pm tonight, but then says 7:30 pm on their schedule page.
If Mr. Lansing were a high school student showing up at prom, he would have had a breathalizer test, and if intoxicated, he would have had his car towed and would have been charged with public intoxication and drunk driving. He might have been thrown out of school and might have lost his high school diploma and would have had to repeat his last semester. All for a moment of youthful lack of judgment.
Yet the mayor is “helped home” and allowed to blame diabetes for behavior that is in no way diabetic.
I’m sorry, but shouldn’t adults be setting an example in holding themselves accountable, particularly at this time of year when kids are tempted to party too much? I understand the stresses the mayor has brought on himself, but he and his friends and colleagues had a responsibility to deal with this behavior in a way that sends a message of zero tolerance for drinking and driving and abusing alcohol. The mayor, as the sponsor of a task force on drugs and alcohol, needs to be honest, take responsibility for his behavior and seek appropriate treatment.
And the police, confronted by an impaired driver with multiple moving violations, should not be “helping him home.”
This is not just a personal problem. Mr. Lansing has made it a public problem for him, the police and the council.
It sounds to me like the adults there acted responsibly, Anne. Councilors tried to convince him to not chair the meeting. The Police Chief and another citizen followed him out the door to evidently make sure he didn’t drive home. I’ve not heard that the Chief or any other police officer observed him driving to the meeting so there’s nothing they can do about that. I don’t see how anyone could insist on a breathalyzer test in that situation. About the only other option available to the police would’ve been to take him to detox but I’m not convinced that that was warranted in this case.
You know what’s always predictable in this “community” ?
What kind of person will be the first to pick up the “stone” … and throw it…
and aim to hurt, REALLY damage …
And thank the great spirit, there are fewer of those , than those who know the value of NOT “breaking the Circle” …
And , by the way, I was at the council meeting last night, and those of you who weren’t … well I guess you ought to think twice, or maybe at least three times, before you hit that “say it” button.
Sorry, Griff, but the mayor never should have been allowed to enter the council chambers. If he somehow sneaked in without anyone noticing (which doesn’t seem to be the case) councilors shouldn’t have tried to convince him to give up the chair, they should have taken the gavel and had him removed.
I can understand the technicality about the DUI, but let’s face it, we had the entire city government enabling behavior that would have gotten a teen-ager smacked down in a heartbeat. It’s not OK, especially when we’re trying to get kids to be accountable for their behavior.
The mayor’s family, or whoever was with him before the meeting, should have taken the car keys away and not let him come to City Hall. When I was 10 I was old enough to spot intoxication and hide the car keys from adults who shouldn’t be driving.
And we wonder why kids don’t believe a word we say to them about responsibility and accountability.
Kiffi,
Are you just making a general comment or are you addressing someone in particular?
Kiffi,
With all due respect, because I love your involvement with this community, you have thrown plenty of stones at city leaders in these forums. What would you have said, here and elsewhere, if Al Roder or John Denison had shown up at the meeting and displayed similar behavior?
Are you implying that the people Griff spoke to, and the observations of others who attended the meeting are not valid? That only you know the truth of this situation?
If you do know the truth, are you saying that he was not intoxicated, or are you saying that no one really knows, so it should be ignored?
This was the Mayor conducting himself in an official capacity, not private behavior. It was before the public. It will be judged by the public.
The motivations for it may be unfortunate, and I wish the Mayor peace in all that he is facing, but denial gets us nowhere. As Griff said, sometimes these things happen for the best, but only if they are dealt with head-on.
As I said earlier, I am so sorry for the mayor’s problems, but as Brendon noted, my comments only apply to the public behavior and the public response to it. We owe it to the children of this city to hold public officials to the highest standards of behavior.
I truly hope the mayor gets help and finds peace. This entire discussion probably could have been prevented if he had not been allowed to enter the council chambers.
Kiffi and others.
You will note post #13, and the fact that I only stated that the video may be presented on Channel 12 this evening.
I am practicing the golden rule on this one. I do not know the facts, so I am not speaking to it either way, other than to say…
If it is a medical problem, I hope that seeks help with it. If it is not medical, then, well, we have other issues to deal with.
I will await more facts.
A diabetes attact will leave a smell of acetone on ones breath.
Avoid assumpsions at all costs and relate only the facts. Much better reporting don’t you think?
Back to the CIP discussion, or at least Bill Ostrem’s comment (#5)…
…was there was any discussion about the $50 Million Plan, the Source or Sources of the $50 Million, the City’s Overall Debt Capacity, Ms. McBride’s Recommended Prudent Debt Capacity, and the Relationship Between These Topics?
Another question that comes to mind…
…was there any discussion of a Cost/Benefit Analysis of the Various Projects in the $50 Million Plan?
Hayes: in reply to your question, both general and specific.
Brendon: No, of course I don’t think I’m the only one who knows what’s going on.
And, I also don’t believe I have thrown “Plenty of stones”. I’ll explain: think of the Shirley Jackson short story, “The Lottery”, or a more modern/medieval parallel, the Taliban, or a more classical example the ancient Greek ritual novelized in “The King Must Die”, by Mary Renault.
There is a difference between (1) sacrifice, because someone must die to “save” the rest of us, because death is demanded as a sacrifice for the preservation of society/culture, and (2) asking the questions that need to be answered, but are not asked because it’s too confrontational to do so, or it causes too much “conflict” to do so, or to dig for the answers.
I refuse to get drawn into an evaluation of Al Roder’s behaviors, or Jon Denison’s behaviors, in contrast to what I saw to be a health issue of a rather complicated nature, if we can agree that health has physical and emotional components. and Period.
Our podcast is now posted. We talk about the mayor’s behavior at the meeting at the 14:00 minute mark or so, then tackle the other council agenda items starting at the 18:30 mark.
The unfortunate result of “zero tolerance” is that there is no mercy. I think that is a quality much needed throughout all levels of our society. There is a difference between enabling and being merciful. Brendon touches on that. Sometimes, it is most difficult to show mercy to the one who needs it the most. So much for philosophising the incident.
I think John George and Anne are both right. There should be leniency provided and we should move away from a zero-tolerance attitude. However, if we (as a society) are going to push for zero-tolerance towards the behavior of youth and young adults, then our leaders should feel the wrath of the zero-tolerance beast as well. If the mayor was intoxicated, or seemed intoxicated, maybe someone could have politely asked him to take a breathalizer test.
As far as Mayor Lansings specific conditions (whether he was intoxicated or not?), I don’t think anyone has enough evidence to say. From the descriptions provided by people at the meeting, I would say that there seems to be enough circumstantial evidence to warrant this conversation.
Here’s a video clip of the first 3 minutes of the council meeting.
Click play to watch.
(I took a video of the video from tonight’s broadcast on NTV. The complete video of the council meeting is available from City Hall.)
I was there for the NMTTF report, and the entire thing with Lansing felt extremely odd. I don’t know that he was drunk or just grief-stricken, but his behavior and the “importance of family” comments (as opposed to just saying that they had no objection to him leaving the meeting) of the other councilors really surprised me. Now that I watch that video, I notice the repetition more.
I’m of the mind that continued talk of Lee having a diabetic reaction or being ill/grieving is not helpful. I’ve got some relevant professional background, having worked at both a detox and a chemical dependency treatment center for a few years in a previous career. I also did interventions for a decade, part of an employee assistance plan at a large company.
As I said in the podcast, some behavior when diabetics are having an insulin reaction can be similar to some intoxicated behavior. This web page says:
But it doesn’t include belligerence, which is my term for describing how Lee acted prior to the meeting when people were trying to get him to not chair it. Nobody was trying to intervene medically. Nobody had any inclination to call for medical help. The police chief didn’t take him to the hospital. And the smell of acetone on the breath from diabetic ketoacidosis is different than the smell of alcohol from drinking.
Lee very well may be diabetic but his behavior at the meeting had nothing to do with it. And it’s apparently not the only time this has happened recently.
I understand why no one I spoke to will go on record saying that he was visibly intoxicated. No one wants to get sued. Hell, neither do I. One’s enough for me. And related to that lawsuit is my conflict of interest with Lee. He’s been one of the few to call attention to the problems with The Crossing, and for that, I’m very grateful. So naturally, I don’t want to do anything to jeopardize that.
But the likelihood that friends and family will organize an intervention to get him help increases the more that people are willing to call a spade a spade. Councilor Arnie Nelson came closest in the meeting when he looked at Lee and said sternly, “Lee, you’re not yourself. Don’t push it.”
In today’s Nfld News, an article about an agenda item from Monday’s mtg: City Hall design plans advance.
Also, Projects on city’s five-year plan could be delayed.
Just a technicality I wanted to clear up… One does not need to be caught driving a vehicle to be charged with DWI. There must only be probable cause to believe the driver had driven a vehicle while under the influence.
Regarding Ross’s comment #25, Ms. McBride’s presentation was quite thorough about the spending options and the tax implications, presenting different options, including a sales tax, which would lower the property tax burden (and provide some revenue from non-residents who use our roads and other facilities). She was obviously impartial on whether increasing taxes was a good idea. There will be more public hearings on this, as well as some out in the community (not in City Hall).
The newspaper story Griff quoted above in #33 is an accurate rendering of the public hearing comments I heard. I was the one who referred to the bike lanes. A small number of bike lanes (on-street lanes, not off-street paths) are in the Parks and Trails Master Plan (which I’m told won’t be approved until the fall, when the consultant returns from a sabbatical), as are a slightly larger number of bike routes (signs only, so the road doesn’t change). I simply suggested that if the Greenway Corridors aren’t being funded for the next five years, which seems all too possible given the number of large capital projects the city faces, then spending money on these relatively low-cost improvements makes sense as a way to begin to implement the plan.
Thanks, Britt. That makes the situation more problematic. If he has shown this intoxicated behavior before and he was driving that night, then more forceful action was needed to address his behavior and prevent future offenses. Again, this is about the difference between private compassion for private behavior and public accountability for public behavior.
I have all the compassion in the world for someone struggling with personal issues. But as before, Mr. Lansing has chosen to make his personal issues public concerns. He could have chosen to stay home Monday night.
We do not allow ministers to take the altar or doctors to enter surgery while impaired, even though we understand and support their personal efforts to deal with substance abuse. We can support the mayor but demand that anyone demonstrating impaired behavior be barred from entering the council chambers.
Bill -
A Sales Tax?
- Ross
In response to Griff’s comment that a diabetic reaction does not include belligerance, I was once at a meeting of some church folks which was also attended by a man from our church who is diabetic. In just moments he went from behaving perfectly normally, as he had for most of the meeting, to appearing confused, unable to speak coherently, unsteady on his feet, and, yes, quite loud and belligerant toward the people who tried to help him.
I don’t know whether Lee was under the influence of alchol or whether he is diabetic. I do believe, from seeing it with my own eyes, that your claim that an insulin reaction doesn’t include belligerance is wrong.
Barb,
Thanks for pointing out that fact. I too have seen the same actions from an old neighbor of mine. I thought he was rolling drunk but it was insulin reaction.
Griff is right that the smell of acetone from diabetic ketoacidosis is different from the smell of alcohol from drinking, but I’m not certain the untrained nose would know the difference.
However, ketoacidosis is found in low insulin / high blood sugar states.
On the other hand, intoxication is found in high insulin / low blood sugar states.
I would like to add that diabetics can be susceptible to hypoglycemia (low blood sugars) -- and, by extension, the confusion that can result from a hypoglycemic state -- with consumption of relatively small amounts of alcohol.
This is especially true on an empty stomach.
Here’s a good introduction on the topic:
Alcohol -- American Diabetes Association.
Short version: alcohol and diabetes can be a problematic combination.
Griff, I’m hesitant to post this comment because I was hoping this topic would die an early death. I really disagree with the way you are handling this.
Regardless of your past experience in the chemical dependency field, diagnosing someone by anecdote and video clip is presumptuous. It is wrong. Even if you had that ability, how is it helpful?
If Mayor Lansing shows up to future meetings in the condition he was in Monday, then I might change my mind.
In the meantime, why not trust that the Mayor’s loved ones are helping him out? Whether his behavior was the result of alcohol, diabetes or something else, he is suffering from an illness. Blogging about it doesn’t help him and doesn’t serve our city either.
I agree, Curt. Also, the influence of Mayor Lansing’s father’s condition (or how Mayor Lansing perceived that condition) is an important factor that has been largely ignored in this debate.
From vigilante blogging to gossip blogging.
Griff, please, please, please, PLEASE close this thread. Let’s give the Mayor the benefit of the doubt until such evidence surfaces to tell us to do otherwise.
Let’s all try to live by the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would them them do unto you.
Peace! Amen!
Arlen,
Your post makes the most sense of all prev. ones.
I agree,,,,,kill this thread.
This is one of those situations where Locally Grown can’t win. Mention the issue of Lee’s behavior at Monday’s council meeting, and we’re gossiping. Don’t mention the issue, and we’re enabling/sheltering.
I believe enough has been said by all sides now, so I hope it stops. Until and unless there’s new information that’s reliably documented to be factual, I don’t see anywhere constructive to take the issue.
So… continued discussion of the other, more important things that came out of Monday’s meeting…..?
Since I was the one who made the criticism based on the early reports, let me apologize sincerely if the situation wasn’t as presented.
I agree this thread should be closed. The lesson we can take away is that there should be a policy to deal with impaired persons before they enter the council chamber, determine whether the issue is medical or not and address it accordingly. Private issues simply are not private once they involve a public meeting.
Tracy: A mea culpa by Griff (Locally Grown?) should end this conversation.
David L:
There’s nothing Griff need apologize for;neither his original post nor his follow up comments merit apology or redaction. He posited a valid question at the outset, followed up with timely media updates, and followed his own guidelines.
That being said, I’d like to know which capital expenditures are set to move forward. We need to make decisions and move forward and actually BUILD something, whether it be a liquor store or a safety center or even a hockey arena. Doesn’t everyone think we need to move forward? It just seems like none of the major projects that so many have worked on are moving forward.