I’m voting for Barack Obama but it’s increasingly clear (U.S. combat deaths in Iraq in July: 5) to me that John McCain was right about the surge and that the war in Iraq is essentially over.
The war was a huge mistake, but how to get out is the big issue now, as well as the growing threat of the resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
How are the McCain and Obama campaigns dealing with these new realities?
Kiffi writes:
“To treat the returning soldiers in the way they are being treated … is a horror against humanity”
Back when he was alive and campaigning, I recall hearing it reported that the anti-war “ultra-liberal” Paul Wellstone had the support of veterans’ groups. Does anyone know or recall what it was Wellstone did to garner that support?
“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
Pardon the use of that almost cliché statement, but it’s the root beneath all of the posts in this thread. It’s why I don’t see *much* difference between Republicans and Democrats. There are some exceptions, for example, I favor Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio).
It was chilling to me that some of the more ‘liberal’ radio shows that I used to listen to reported U.S. deaths like a mantra, but never Iraqi deaths. I liked, at least, that U.S. deaths were reported as reason to leave Iraq, but the inference is that Iraqi deaths don’t matter.
Kiffi, here is an article that talks about how Wellstone won veteran’s support as he fought doggedly for their deserved benefits and compensation;
http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/broudy23.htm
Bright, thanks! But that’s just one bill, passed fairly late in his second term. Surely there was more.
Sorry, Barry, I meant You, not Kiffi. I don’t see any thing else except his fight for mental health along those veteran lines. And this search has been very informative for me. We moved here just a few weeks before Wellstone’s plane crashed and I was given the distinct impression that Wellstone was a man of peace, yet he voted for every operation including Dessert Fox…see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wellstone
I think he had that Jack Kennedy aura, you know, the one who got us into Viet Nam, where you thought he was the greatest thing since lo cal pizza, and it turns out he was really high fat beef wellington. Oh, well, the well is deep.
Bright writes:
“he voted for every operation including Dessert Fox”
Clearly not “every.” For those (including myself) with short memory, here’s Wellstone’s record, from the Wikipedia article Bright links to:
“Senator Wellstone voted against authorizing the use of force before the Gulf War on January 12, 1991 (the vote was 52–47 in favor). He also voted against the use of force before the Iraq War on October 11, 2002 (the vote was 77–23 in favor).
“Wellstone supported requests for military action by President Clinton, including Operation Restore Hope in Somalia (1992), Operation Uphold Democracy in Haiti (1994), Operation Deliberate Force in Bosnia and Herzegovina (1995), Operation Desert Fox in Iraq (1998) and Operation Allied Force in Yugoslavia (1999).”
I had quite forgotten the name “Dessert Fox” for Clinton’s impeachment-distraction foray. I thought Bright was talking about Erwin “Ice Cream” Rommel….
I misspoke. I meant to say ‘almost’ which I am almost always thinking in my head cuz I know there is little around that is always, if anything at all.
Yeah, that’s right Rommel was the Dessert Fox. Cool, at night anyway.
Here’s yet another claim that it wasn’t the surge, but other internal elements shifting that produced the drop in violence. From Foreign Policy in Focus, Stephen Zunes:
“…in what was perhaps his most stunning failure of the evening, the Democratic nominee effectively conceded McCain’s claim that President George W. Bush’s “troop surge” in Iraq — long advocated by the Republican nominee and opposed by Obama — brought about the dramatic reduction of violence in that country in recent months.
In reality, a shift in the alignment of internal Iraqi forces and the tragic de facto partitioning of Baghdad into sectarian enclaves contributed more to lowering the death toll, and the current relative equilibrium is probably temporary. The decision by certain Sunni tribal militias that had battled U.S. forces to turn their weapons against al-Qaeda-related extremists took place before the announcement of the surge, and militant opposition leader Muqtada al-Sadr’s unilateral ceasefire resulted from internal Shia politics rather than any U.S. actions.”
From a longer article here:
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5562
One of the great reasons why we are doing so well in Iraq, relatively speaking, is because of our troops on the ground and the great headway they have made by helping to rebuild and build new educational and medical buildings, and moreover, how their winning ways of befriending and adopting and caring for the people of Iraq, who could so now use a helping hand and kind heart after all their years of living in strife and repression and oppression.
Human beings need to live freely in order to thrive The example of the American soldier, and I am sure many other country’s military personnel and civil workers, have stepped up and made us all proud.
Hooray for American military men and all who have pitched in with their strong hands and their brave and kind hearts to rebuild a country!
Make that military men and ‘women’. It’s still early for me. Sorry about that.
It would be pretty nice if the US govt did the same thing for the US infrastructure, but the small govt guys dont want to spend money on frivolous things like roads/bridges/schools in the US.
I don’t understand all of it, but I know that in Oklahoma, it has been very difficult to find anyone to do any labor at all, on farms or on road work. This country has been very set on sending kids to college and not promoting physical labor as a viable way of life. True, it is hard and many people get injured with back problems and such. Better ways to work should be developed using more machinery to break and make roads and bridges.
Better money and more might be required.
One thing now we have is 160,000 or so men and women trained to re build a country. We also have a million men in jail who could do a little work now and then, don’t you think? They used to have road crews from prison that worked well.
On the second part, so few people go out there and try to make our govt REPRENTATIVES hold to their promises or make the Tough Choices that might not get them re-elected. Politicians don’t build roads, they sit in offices and go around and shake hands and make neutral statements that people can read into and interpret any way they want to make themselves feel good…except for Ray Cox.
This is taxation with out representation…but we haven’t let the reps know we want them to take care of our country and our people and not so much their own personal agendas…so they are not to blame, we are.
People in jail do work. Do you know how much they get paid. 25 cents an hour. I know this cause one of my buddies is in prison.
Ya, I know the politicians blow ass. That’s why we should vote them all out and vote in people like Jon Dennison. He has no alternative agenda except making the city work better. Everyone else owns businesses in town, or have some other interest in mind.
Oh, I feel so sorry for your pal, Anthony. I also feel sorry for the American people who are footing the bill to pay for your friend’s room and board, food and clothing and medical care, recreational equipment and other amenities like t.v. to the tune of $30,000 and rising EVERY YEAR PER PRISONER.
Certainly many of them can do better than laundry, license plates and sign making, imho. Some do work, some do not work, depending on the state.
I know many people would rather go to jail and get a promised place to live and food to eat for the duration of their incarceration than live out in certain quarters.
lol, do you know why he is in there? He took meth. Guess how much rehabilitation he has done in there? 0.
The war on drugs is a lost cause, because all they do is throw addicts in the clink. Do you think that is good policy? I don’t. Your buddies who love the war on drugs do, because they make a lot of money. Prisons are a big business.
Bright, where do prison road crews actually prove to be a good program? Not being sarcastic, I just am really curious.
I think prison is overused to handle property crimes and personal drug use and the results of untreated mental illness, and not used enough for white collar crime. A guy who steals $500 from a convenience store gets 20 years and a guy Tom Petters will probably do a few years for fraud that could exceed a billion dollars. Infuriating. Even the Enron guys and the old Nixon gang got off relatively easy compared to poor street guys with bad lawyers.
Anne, I think the prison issue would need a whole new thread. I was just trying to think of some solution to get our infrastructure worked on.
You are right, though, it’s a sticky and complicated area. My best advice, if you don’t like prisons, try your best to stay out of trouble.
I wonder what Obama and McCain feel about it….oh, Obama wants less incarceration, McCain wants better systems.
Do you know what prison actually is? It is college for criminals. Anyone going in there is going to be a better criminal when they get out. Anything we can do that reduces the amount of people in prison without compromising the safety of americans is welcome.
also did you know we have a higher percentage in prisons in the US than anyone in the world? Even china.
Draconian Drug laws are the problem.
Hey, let’s keep this thread going forever and ever.
I meant topic.
Sure, Holly, I’ll be happy to end it with this…the beginning tenets of our government.
The Constitution of the United States of America
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
See the rest of this document at;
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html
Anthony what do you suggest if not prison for criminals?
depends what you call a criminal. I don’t consider someone with substance issues a criminal. legalize the drugs and tax them. Peter then can have all of the tax breaks he wants.
Bright wrote,
Bright, that sounds suspiciously like hyperbole.
Oh, Patrick, sometime when you are in Chicago, around 11th and State Street, there’s a police station there, hang around for a few days, speak to some of the detained and then talk to me.
Or more immediately, here’s a phone number, call it and ask the desk officer if it’s true.
(312)746-8386
Why would I say that? Because cops have told me that. Why would inmates say that? Because they don’t have a place to live, because some one is looking to gun them down over a bad deal or personal encounter and jail offers some safety in that regard.
Why do you immediately attack the messenger?
Why don’t you first try and ask questions that would help you understand if my statement is accurate or not?
Bright,
Your assertion sounded very unlikely, so I questioned your assertion. You offered further explanation. Now that you have explained what you meant by your previous statement, it is easier to understand why you might think that. Hence, answering my critique strengthened and clarified your own statements.
Yeah, but I really didn’t want to go there. I don’t want to talk about prisons or jails or criminals right now. Too busy, school’s in session!
You folks have such interesting ideas for other threads, I hate to yank it back to surge and success in Iraq. And I’m often guilty of thread drift myself… but here goes. (Sorry, Holly)
Bright, you give voice to pure myth in #209.
- Haven’t you read the stories about massive fraud in Iraq related to many of the no-bid contracts?
- Haven’t you read the stories of how whistleblowers on fraud have been punished and silenced?
- Haven’t you read stories of US soldiers who have served in Iraq and found it hard to comply with military rules of engagement because they are outnumbered and sent into hostile urban areas and act in a kind of policing capacity, when their training was for warfare?
- Haven’t you read of the building with all the bad plumbing that will have to be torn down, millions of dollars of US taxpayer money gone to waste, wealth relocated to the no-bid contractors?
- Haven’t you read of the high civilian casualty rates, and the resentment toward what is perceived as a US occupation, and the requirement by the new Iraqi government that the US set a timetable for withdrawal?
I get the feeling from your post #209 that your only source of news is FOX. There have been studies done that have shown how people who watch FOX are much more likely to be misinformed about Iraq, and believe that Saddam had something to do with 9-11 (many to this day), while even Bush admitted that they had nothing to do with it.
It seems to me that there’s a sad bi-polar tendency going on in many Americans: On the one hand, they want to believe that, if the violence in Iraq has decreased, the only possible reason is the surge, and all the good things FOX tells us we’ve done there.
It’s a form of racism: Those Iraqis are assumed to be crazy, uncivilized animals who could never, through their own good and bad choices, have anything to do with the reduction in violence. It’s American tunnel-vision. Only our might and generosity could have accomplished any shift toward peace, because some of us would like to believe that US mililtary might brings peace. Some of us want very badly to believe this propaganda.
Here’s the other side of the bi-polar thing: Suggest to some of these folks that elements within this same USA, without which flies in Iraq cannot land on sheep dung, may have allowed the 9-11 attacks to occur, and suddenly they shift into a totally new kind of psychic mode:
“Oh, no, no, no. The US, without which the wind cannot blow and the sun cannot rise, got lazy because of Clinton, and that’s why we were not prepared.”
Isn’t there something kind of dangerous about this kind of bi-polar disorder? I mean, I’m concerned that bi-polar people like this might flip out and become violent at some point. Do meds work? How can we be sure these folks take their meds?
Paul Freid,
Have you ever heard of people showing up to vote, even though their lives were threatened? So hungry for democracy and freedom are they.
Have you ever heard of a glass being half full?
Have you ever heard of loose lips sink ships?
Have you ever heard of the fog of war?
Have you ever heard of PBS news? or C-SPAN? I have.
Show me where I said Saddam was responsible for the sad and terrible events of Septemer 11, 2001. Never did. Never will. It’s all about setting theatre in a strategic location, and getting rid of a man that should not be a leader of such fine and intelligent people as the Iraqi people. I guess you missed my thread about my Iraqi friend from the late 70s.
No, I am no expert on the truth. I never claimed to be. But I know one thing, and that is the American people, all sorts of them, doing and thinking and believing all sorts of things, because they are free to do so and I am free to think how I want to about it all. Thanks to the American defenders of freedom!
When I saw your list of Haven’t you’s, the first thing that came to mind was, Yeah, I have heard of most of those things in one or two of my old neighborhoods.
Paul you sound like an editor of common dreams.
You are right on the issues, but your conclusions are typical of those on the left.
You are no different than the right wing fanatics you are just on the other end.
I personally feel insulted, because I do watch Fox….but I also listen to NPR to get the whole picture.
Extreme partisan ship does nothing more then play in to the hands of those who are in power.
The Washington behavior around the financial crisis should boldly illustrate that.
United we stand divided we fall……..that refers to “we the people” versus the political establishment.
Between your extreme left views and others extreme right views the truth lies in the middle.
When I was watcing pbs the other night, a newsman said that McCain complained that when he was campaigning in the SE of the US, and not
making any negative comments about his opponent, he got exactly no
coverage wahtseover nationally. He was forced to do the blame game
just to get coverage. The American people’s thirst for fighting is to
blame, and the media’s pandering to it, or vice versa, don’t know which
came first.
I for one really dislike seeing all this blaming going on here in a community newsletter that WE have control of, within rules set down, with very few
civil suggestions, leaving out the venom, on what WE can do as citizens
to get this ball rolling forward. I vote for a postiive suggestion, positive solution and positive descriptions of why we like what we like and what can we do once a problem is sufficently identified, no matter when the first utterance by the first person of whatever parties did start it.
Bright: Your optimism is great. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t doubt for a minute that some good things happen in Iraq, that soldiers in Iraq (some of whom I know) have done good things, and that some of the reconstruction turned out fine and will be put to good use.
Your optimism is great. Nothing wrong with that. But a more realistic approach should keep all the information in perspective. There is the joke about how Mussolini kept the trains running on time, told in stark contrast to his overall record (Snopes.com claims improvements to the trains system can’t be credited to him because much of it happened before he came to power, and that in fact his trains were in fact not punctual:
http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp
-- so optimism certainly can be a good thing, but in some situations it becomes the object of jokes).
And I love the photos of people with the ink on their thumbs. You write, “people showing up to vote, even though their lives were threatened? So hungry for democracy and freedom are they.” Yes, and now their democratically elected leader wants the US out. Shall we deny them the democratic process we claim to have helped give them?
Now your quote applies to US citizens contemplating how much more dangerous the (already dangerous) world had been made for us by our own president, and how we are more aware after these eight years of the damage global climate change is doing:
“people showing up to vote, even though their lives were threatened? So hungry for democracy and freedom are they.”
That’s what election 2008 in the US is now about.
Paul F, we still have far fewer American soldiers wounded or killed than in that debacle JFK got us into, a little thing called Viet Nam. WE have a volunteer army, no draft, and a lot of people are into it as a way of life.
I am not, don’t shoot the messenger, but you are gonna have to do an awful lot of talking to change people’s minds.
Even Obama is now being referred to as a ‘cut throat politician’ as he fought his way to the junior senator position he now holds.
My dad used to say, “It’s a dog eat dog world, and look out for number One.”
There’s a reason for that, and I am no pie in the sky optimist. I am trying for balanced reporting around here, cuz it looks like that’s the best we can be.
And the joke is, she chimed in hours later, that I did not vote for any of these yahoos, no offense to Yahoo, not one of them. I have met politicians left and right since I was a very young woman and not one of them asked me what I wanted to see happen or what I needed, I’ll stop there, but it’s not the end of the story.
The sincere ones are so few and far between, it’s truly a tragedy.
That is the real joke, and it’s not funny.
Paul,
If we would follow the lefts advise and leave Iraq today in a hurry the country would collapse.
Restoring Democracy in a facist country is no easy feat. Even in Germany it took years not month.
We should celebrate the fact that Iraqis are free to vote and not use it for partisan politics.
I am for one are grateful that America took Hitler out, despite of a lot of nay sayers at the time.
It is much easier to sit back in the armchair and cry over all the bad that is happening in the world then to go out and do something about it.
peter: for a fiscal conservative, you sure like to spend trillions of dollars in iraq. That war is bankrupting the USA. The terrorists are winning because we are in iraq. They are bleeding us dry of money.
Here is an article from 2004. It is a tactic Bin Laden uses.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/nov/03/usa.alqaida
Anthony,
Sorry, but spreading “American style democracy” does not come cheap!
1 million dead Iraqis ( this is OK with Bright as long as they are not American soldiers) , 1 million refugees, and a 1 Trillion dollar bill for the American taxpayer!
With this GOOD the US empire spreads in the world, I just can’t understand why all them backward countries aren’t jumping at the chance of assimilation.
Alright Zenner, I am disappointed in you, too. How do you know how I feel about the Iraqis? I am still waiting for one of you to show any remorse or honor or even do you know one name of anyone who died in the great tragedy of September 11, 2001?
I don’t even like any of this. I don’t like politics, and I am trying very hard to understand what people think and why they think the way they do because I feel like I should know more. But, don’t you doubt for one minutes that when I was young and physically able, that I was out protesting against the Viet Nam war with all my ability. And don’t you doubt for one stinking minute that when I meet a soldier from that war, or any other that I don’t take his or her hand in mine and look them in the eye and pray with them.
I know it all has truth to it, not just your view or my view or anyone’s else’s view. It is all of our views together and no one should be shut down or insulted or put upon, or anything but you should hear them and acknowledge their story as presented, not what you frilly it up with to suit your own needs. Have your story and let me have mine.
Don’t take my words and make them into your awfully limited thoughts about what I think. Don’t ever do that to anyone online that you don’t really know. It is very foolish.
Anthony …..I am glad in 1940 money wasn’t an issue…..
Bright (233): It was LBJ who was president during the Gulf of Tonkin era, which sparked the key escalation of the war. During the JFK era, we were meddling and sending “advisors,” but it wasn’t a quagmire yet. You have your history wrong.
So are you saying that when we’ve killed as many Iraqis, or had as many of our own killed, only then should we be concerned?
Bright,
Sorry if I offended you, I didn’t want to jump into the pick on Bright pile-on, but your comments in #229 and #233 really tripped my trigger.
#229 -- “Show me where I said Saddam was responsible for the sad and terrible events of Septemer 11, 2001. Never did. Never will. It’s all about setting theatre in a strategic location, and getting rid of a man that should not be a leader of such fine and intelligent people as the Iraqi people”
#233 -- “Paul F, we still have far fewer American soldiers wounded or killed than in that debacle JFK got us into, a little thing called Viet Nam. WE have a volunteer army, no draft, and a lot of people are into it as a way of life.”
My reading between the lines above comes to this interpretation:
The US picked a third party county Iraq , because someone thinks it’s a good “strategic location” to take on terrorists, and we can take out Saddam at the same time. The cost of which is “still have far fewer American soldiers wounded or killed than in that debacle JFK got us into, a little thing called Viet Nam”.
To me picking an innocent country to use as a battle ground to fight some other enemy from somewhere else, say’s to me that you either did not think carefully about what you wrote, or you have a cold callous disregard for the lives of foreigners, since the measure is American lives. Why would we want to destroy 1 million lives of “fine and intelligent” Iraqi peoples for “strategic
location”?
Personally, I feel it is careless writing, and I am again sorry for taking a shot at you. I can tell from your writing that you really do care greatly for others.
Well, if anyone had asked in a civil manner I might have told you that I didn’t include the numbers of Iraqi’s or Vietnamese or Cambodians or Taiwanese or Koreans or Chinese or any is that I don’t know the real numbers, I don’t know who killed the people in all unbiased factual truth. It is for those countries to talk about their losses to me at this point in my understanding and I don’t hear from them, so I leave it alone.
But, because I don’t comment on everything including many personal reasons why I do not wish to comment on certain aspects of certain subjects
is no reason why I should not post or be subject to ridicule and having all sorts of imaginary party line ideas dumped on me.
Anyone can post one idea or twenty thousand, and shouldn’t be afraid of these false attacks, like I get, just because I don’t agree with most of you.
http://www.pbs.org/battlefieldvietnam/timeline/index.html
I said, that debacle that JFK got us into…that is correct historically.
Hey, McCain was right. McCain was right. And this is still going. And going.
Okay, to add to this so it’s still going on, Mike Zenner in post #198 added something very interesting to the pot, but no one responded as far as I can tell. So I will a bit late, even though I don’t like this topic.
Because of the title.
Mike wrote
I wonder, sometimes, about bases and our need to have them in the middle east. Do you think that factored into our need to be in Iraq?
Holly, I think the plan is to make every friend we can, and then back up that plan with weapons and places to put weapons and friends to defend and who will defend us, or at least let us shoot from their place. I have heard that military bases would be put up somewhere in that general area, but I don’t remember if it would be on Iraqi land or just somewhere within shooting range.
And, it is good to be right, but people will now ask, “What have you done for us lately? With this war and economic mess, and it could have been planned the whole time, I think they might have put McCain up, knowing the American People were going to give the Republicans the boot, knowing he wouldn’t win because of his age, which is not a kind of thing people can blame party stuff on, and then let Obama go in there and not be able to do anything cuz of the lack of funds, lack of trust from the people toward all government and wallet street merchants of greed and corruption, and then be able to come back in 2011 saying look you need us Republicans again.
I didn’t read this, but now I am starting to think like a political strategist. Any takers?
Holly,
Below are a couple links to the issue of US bases in Iraq. The fact of the matter is we have over 700 bases in 130 countries around the world. I feel the reasons we are setting bases in Iraq are to get out of the growing discourse against the Bases in Saudi Arabia, and to have a forwarding point for a future attack on Iran.
Just think about how much money would flow into local economies if these bases were back in the US! Realistically, there is no reason for these bases other than 19th century gunboat diplomacy and intimidation, or future attacks.
We have B-2 bombers that can fly from Missouri to bomb Iraq and back. We have quick response special forces that can deploy anywhere in the world in 48hours. We have Nuclear subs that can travel around the world underwater for months on end and each have enough explosive(nuclear) firepower, then all of what was expended in conventional explosives in WWII.
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0319-26.htm
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm
Bright said
Maybe that is why the Repbulicans picked McCain/Palin. You are sadly mistaken, my friend, If you think the Democrats picked Obama because he’s anything less than superb. Although Obama is upright and stoic, he is not the next Carter (who was also upright and stoic). He’s better at communicating, and better at asking his party to help him get things he needs, and I hope he doesn’t take blame on to himself as an individual.
Although you are right on the swing back and forth thing-- we do need two parties to keep things in line around here.
Mike, military bases in different countries must provide a lot of benefit for us, I would think. What do I know, but I hope we don’t plan to be on the offensive against Iran. I think we want to protect another country over there (besides Iraq) and we weren’t in good position to do that. Does good position now prevent us from a huge war? That would be nice. Trying to find the golden lining, although our entry into Iraq seemed so deceptive. We lost lives and messed up that country, and for what… oil comes to mind, but we are friends with a country that right wing religious folks think we need to protect.
The worst of it, to me, is the torturing that has been happening. I thought we were above that. Well, though, we didn’t have a “hostage crisis.” Maybe we showed them we can play under the radar, too. I still don’t think it’s right.
Holly: If your feelings along these lines are strong, you might consider asking Griff to either change the title to the form of a question, or close comments on this post and open another with a less subjective title. He did this on the presidential posts, and being a generally good listener and open-minded person, he might consider your request.
I agree with you on the title, as I think would Mike and Jane and some others who have contributed earlier.
Instead of repeating the phrase from the blog post title you dislike, you might at least end it with question marks (McCain was right??), or start your comment with your disagreement. Otherwise you come off, at first, as agreeing with the title (with which, in fact, you disagree).
You placed those words regarding McCain at the top of your comments, where they are the first thing (and sometime the only thing) people read of your comments when they see the right-hand column menu of recent comments here at LoGroNo. I think your intention was to convey a kind of sarcasm that comes across better in conversation than it does in the short clip in that right-hand LoGroNo menu/column that previews recent comments. (Pardon my lengthy explanation here, but I hate to see the lack of question marks make you seem to repeat the very thing with which you disagree.)
Regarding whether the purpose for the war was for oil, or protection of Israel, or liberating and spreading democracy, or other stuff, consider:
- Alan Greenspan said it was mostly for oil, but then was pressured and retracted. Kind of like that movie scene and line: “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain: The Great Oz has spoken.”
- Consider that the Republicans are capable of multi-tasking, and that the no-bid contracts, fraud, and “The War on Whistleblowers” (see article by that name at Salon.com) has made a climate in which current and future GOP contributors have made millions, often by corrupt means that have, at many turns, gone unchallenged. In this way, Bush-Cheney-Rove used the war, in part, to insure future donations to their party.
- Consider that Bush-Cheney vastly expanded the general privatization of the military, which is not the same as the no-bid reconstruction contract, but whose effect in resulting in more money for the future of the GOP may be the same. The war was used (part of the multi-tasking) to advance this agenda, and even if the view from Iraqi civilians is that the war and occupation has been a disaster of sorts, some of these multi-taking goals have been a grand success for the war profiteers.
- Consider that little old book from the post-WWI era by Smedley Butler, a retired Marine general who set a record for the number of times an individual received the congressional medal of honor. The title of his book was “War is a Racket.” You can Google it and find at least a condensed version online. He speaks of his realization that the wars he fought in during his long career were not about democracy and freedom, or about helping he oppressed, but about being a kind of strong man (gangster-style) for corporate interests in the various countries.
Side note: And he was a Republican, like Jeanette Rankin, who, (correctly) according to Wikipedia, was “the first woman to be elected to the United States House of Representatives and the first female member of the Congress.” These were in the days when Republicans and small government could mean not getting involved in complicated and costly foreign entanglements where corporate bosses make a killing while the soldiers killed get low wages — and it was fashionable in soom circles to discuss this openly. Now we have Ron Paul representing this kind of thinking.
Regarding military bases and their purpose:
- Consider as a source retired Lt. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski, a 20-some year military vet, who worked in the pentagon and watched as Cheney invented the “Office of Special Plans” there, which cherry-picked intelligence and spun it as a web of lies to sell the war.
Regarding the bases: In a documentary called “Hijacking Catastrophe,” Kwiatkowski speaks specifically about the location of the US military bases, their proximity to oil fields, and their strategic location to prepare for future oil-grabs.
Side note/background: Kwiatkowski has been compared to Daniel Ellsberg, who served in the military and who later worked for the Rand corporation, and who initially supported the Vietnam war, but who leaked the Pentagon Papers when he realized that lies were being told, and we were still in Vietnam although it had been concluded that the war was unwinable. Kwiatkowski wrote “The New Pentagon Papers” (I think there is an article by that name at Salon.com) and leaked information about what she saw going on at the Pentagon regarding twisted, out-of-context intelligence. Having worked there in various capacities, she had access to the way the analysts were interpretting the data, and she could see how it was being twisted to sell the war.
- Kwiatkowski is an interesting voice on this subject of bases in part because she voted for Bush in 2000, she was military, worked in the Pentagon, taught classes at a military college, etc., but was a “convert” and became a strong critic of the Bush-Cheney disaster as it was unfolding.
- Kwiatkowski is a former Republican, now a libertarian and supporter of Ron Paul. She spoke at a “Vets for Peace” rally in SE MN or SW Wisconsin this summer. I did not attend, but I heard about it from some who did.
Mccain was wrong according to this piece from the UK, which offers compelling analysis:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-mccain-is-deluding-himself-over-the-surge-952490.html
The reason for the drop in violence was not the surge, but the fact that formerly mixed areas where Sunni and Shia lived in close proximity have experienced ethnic cleansing and an exodus of refugees to other countries to flee the violence:
“By the time the US troops arrived, there were no more mixed areas left. The easy pickings – the Shia who lived next door, or the Sunni who lived up the road – had all been attacked. Sunni and Shia weren’t killing each other any more because they had retreated into vast enclaves, cleansed and armed, surrounded by barriers manned by militias. Four million people had been driven from their homes. ”
The author draws upon methods to track ethic cleansing in other countries, but turns them on Iraq to support its conclusions.
Thanks Paul, McCain was wrong. Wrong! By my repeating of the title, I was trying to make it obvious that the title was being written over and over again for anyone who is visiting LoGroNo. Possible subliminal effect, but who worries about those things.
You’re right about my wording. Good thing you brought it up so I can be clear.
Thanks also for the reading suggestions. I’m on it. I also read Mike’s suggested link about military bases.
Okay, I’ll try it. Griff, would you be so kind as to change the title of your post, or would you open another one when this post starts to go adrift, again?