Comments on: Neighborhood associations in Northfield – where are you?

By: David Ludescher

David Ludescher — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:14:06 +0000

Tracy: I was serious. The website makes it look more like a club than an association. There is no information on who is eligible to join, or how a person can become an associate.

By: Tracy Davis

Tracy Davis — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:27:52 +0000

David L., I’ll get right on that East Side website thing to be sure that people like you can’t get in.

But seriously… I’m sure the NESNA has defined the boundaries, but I don’t know what they are. And they don’t have “members” that I know of. I’m on an email mailing list, and I get occasional block part invites taped to the handle of my front door. That’s all I know.

By: Locally Grown » Podcast: The Triumvirate on the liquor store, neighborhood associations, and fluff galore

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:59:29 +0000

[...] yesterday, wasting valuable airtime on community fluff before launching into arguments about Tracy’s neighborhood assocation blog post, followed by a (um) very polite discussion (again) about the liquor store land [...]

By: David Ludescher

David Ludescher — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:31:14 +0000

Tracy: What are the demographics, geographics, and membership requirements for the East Side neighborhood association? The website doesn’t state whether I would be eligible as an East Sider.

By: Anne Bretts

Anne Bretts — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:03:31 +0000

Wouldn’t it make more sense to align the ward boundaries more effectively than create another set of boundaries that most residents won’t know or care about?
Creating ‘neighborhoods’ that don’t align with ward boundaries means having some neighborhoods with two councilors and split voting. Why would anyone want to create a system that makes things more complicated?
You still can have neighborhoods within the wards, if people feel the need for them. And the newer areas usually have defined neighborhoods with homeowner associations. Perhaps the focus should be to collect information on what’s already out there and then see where the gaps might be.

By: Tracy Davis

Tracy Davis — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:09:19 +0000

It’s a start, but the way the ward boundaries are currently drawn really doesn’t address what I’m talking about. Neighborhoods are smaller than wards and often have naturally defined practical boundaries (river, highways, parks). Having seen the exponential growth of Northfield over the past decade or so has convinced me that neighborhood associations could be genuinely helpful. I don’t agree that the town is too small to need them.

By: Anne Bretts

Anne Bretts — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:45:43 +0000

Thanks, David. The more I think about this, the more benefits I find. Quarterly meetings would be frequent enough to allow staff to outline any projects, plans and proposals and allow feedback. Residents would get to know about the meetings and look to them for information on their area (and the city as a whole), rather than having to monitor the paper or city website and risk missing a meeting. Maybe the council could even do a meeting in each ward once a year, just as a way of reaching out. It could be fun and really help the people across the city feel their voices are being heard.

By: David Ludescher

David Ludescher — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:38:24 +0000

Tracy or Bill: Doesn’t Anne’s plan make sense?

By: Anne Bretts

Anne Bretts — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:22:11 +0000

I think neighborhood organizations and designations make sense in large cities like Minneapolis, but are an unnecessary level of bureaucracy in a town as small as Northfield. We have wards, so why not capitalize on that system by encouraging all the townhome associations and neighborhood organizations to network on a ward level? The councilors could do combined quarterly listening/networking sessions to promote cooperation and discussion in an organic way — and promote better understanding of ward boundaries and issues. You can’t force a neighborhood into existence, but you can nurture the vitality of the wards we already have.

By: Bill Ostrem

Bill Ostrem — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:13:36 +0000

Regardless of what we do with the code, I think we should follow the lead of Minneap0lis and St. Paul and formalize neighborhoods with names and boundaries in Northfield. One start would be to talk with people in those cities and learn about any pros and cons to what they’ve done.

By: David Ludescher

David Ludescher — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:35:20 +0000

Tracy: Neighborhood association is, at best, an ambiguous term. Ambiguous terms do not belong in code.

Putting neighborhood associations into the code when Northfield currently does not recognize any such political creature only invites mischief from those who live outside the 350 foot radius.

Is there something about the 350 foot radius that does not presently work? Could it be solved by making the radius slightly larger than its present 350 radius?

What about organizations such as the Chamber of Commerce who represent people in all areas of the town? Shouldn’t the Chamber be consulted on just about every decision?

Larry makes a valid point about homeowners assocations. Shouldn’t those assocations have exclusive and sole jurisdiction over their residences?

You are right about there just being too many logistical problems to serve any useful purpose.

By: Larry DeBoer

Larry DeBoer — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:37:04 +0000

I think the neighborhoods built after about 1990 to the East and Southeast of town are are named for the development name on the city maps. And I think the people who live in them consider them neighborhoods, not subdivisions. After a subdivision is built-out there is no need to call it a subdivisison -- it is now a neighborhood. Among them are Hills of Spring Creek, Rosewood, Rosewood Estates, Mayflower Hill, Quail Run and Heywood. Most have a president, who turns over every year or so, and most have a treasurer and a board to collect association dues and approve expenses. Those that are largely town-home associations with much more “common property” including yards provide lawn care and snow removal. Some are made up of single family homes and have some minimal covenents regarding the property rules and some minimal area beautification such as mail box standards and common flower planting areas. Many have come to Council Meetings representing their neighborhood concerns over the past decade. While some are formal, some are completely informal but both styles have a developed sense of a “leadership team” to initiate discussion when needed.

By: Tracy Davis

Tracy Davis — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:55:32 +0000

David L., using your criteria (that neighborhood associations “only” represent those who join), then I’d have to conclude that the City Council ward rep can only represent me if he/she is the candidate I voted for.

Obviously, you and I must disagree about how much citizen participation is helpful. I believe that the more knowledge, participation, and involvement citizens have, the more the community and local government benefit.

It sounds like a lot of your concern is an almost logistical one (e.g. too many people speaking at city council meetings, “wasting” time), which could be addressed by using more effective methods of taking and recording citizen input.

Even if we keep things just as they are -- wouldn’t it be more effective to have one speaker addressing the council as the official representative of a recognized neighborhood association, rather than having fifteen individual neighbors wanting three minutes each?

By: Bill Ostrem

Bill Ostrem — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:29:35 +0000

My experience of living in Minneapolis and St. Paul makes me think that defined neighborhoods are a good thing. I lived in Merriam Park, in St. Paul, and in Marcy Park and Linden Hills, in Minneapolis. The neighborhood boundaries were identified with signs. The neighborhoods gave me another level of belonging in a big city. Northfield is not nearly as big, but I identify with my neighborhood on the northwest side of Nfld in a way that I don’t with the other parts of the city.

I’m part of the LDC advisory group Tracy describes above, and in one of our meetings city staff member Brian O’Connell described how such groups can help developers avoid problems when doing projects. They provide a lower layer of public interaction that improves communication.

Let’s identify some Northfield neighborhoods and get people talking to one another!

By: David Ludescher

David Ludescher — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:09:52 +0000

Tracy: Is there a problem defining “neighbor” as someone within 350 feet?

It seems that including neighborhood associations in the political process is adding another, unneeded level of citizen participation.

First, Northfield has elected ward representatives who represent their wards.

Second, a neighborhood association does not represent the interests of all of the neighbors; it only represents those who join.

Third, there is no way to assure that there is a uniform membership requirement for the organizations, nor a uniform use of such groups throughout the City.

Fourth, how do we determine the boundary of the neighborhood association?

I see so many definitional problems that, in my opinion, it would be best to remove any such neighborhood association language.