Posted to the Nfld News at 4 PM: Prosecutors give Roder immunity for Lansing testimony.
Former City Administrator Al Roder will be granted immunity from prosecution for testifying against former Mayor Lee Lansing. That’s according to a letter from the Goodhue County Attorney’s Office obtained by the Northfield News on Monday, which says investigators do not have “sufficient credible evidence” to prosecute Roder.
Update 6:30 am Tuesday: the PDF of the letter from Goodhue County Attorney Stephen Betcher to Al Roder’s attorney David Lillehaug is on the Northfield News website.
It would seem as though Roder would already have sufficient incentive already to testify against his longtime foe, Lee Lansing. Why would he be granted immunity?
Griff: He is granted immunity so that he has to testify. If he isn’t granted immunity, then Roder can plead the “Fifth”. At this point, Roder has nothing to gain, and everything to lose, testifying against Lansing.
“No credible evidence” is an interesting phrase. It either means that they never had any evidence, or the evidence that they once thought was credible turned out not to be so. Two years and no credible evidence!? What the h-ll took so long?
David,
Small point: they didn’t say “no” credible evidence, they said not “sufficient.”
Still, they certainly took long enough trying to find some. Maybe it doesn’t exist.
Patrick: Perhaps not a small point. It may be the language needed to avoid paying Roder.
David, what do you think about the sentence from Betcher’s letter to Lillehaug that says “should additional extrinsic evidence come to light from sources other than your client, we reserve the right to consider charges based on evidence not obtained from your client”?
Based on this letter alone, it would seem premature for the city to cut that $25K check, correct?
David- Isn’t there some kind of statute of limitation on this type of charge? I don’t think Mr. Roder can be expected to live the rest of his life under this type of scepter.
Curt (and John),
That sentence seems to accomplish a few things:
It keeps Al Roder from ever really and fully clearing his name.
It allows Goodhue to keep their files closed,, so we may never know what Gary Smith thought/claimed he had found out about Al Roder. The mystery will continue.
Good question about the statute of limitations.
Patrick- That is an interesting concept. If I’m understanding this correctly, then, the investigation is not really closed? How on earth can we get closure in Northfield, then, so we can move on? Having served on a jury this last May, I can understand how there can be evidence that something happened, but it can be insuffucuent to or not even come close to supporting the charges. I think another interesting aspect is that this was a police investigation that was turned over to Goodhue County, not just some average Joe trying to get at someone.
The PDF of the letter from Goodhue County Attorney Stephen Betcher to Al Roder’s attorney David Lillehaug is on the Northfield News website.
Statutes of limitations are applicable to this issue , and if they run out (is it six years ? ) then we will all be left without closure.
John; you wrote: “I don’t think Mr. Roder can be expected to live the rest of his life under this type of SCEPTER” (emphasis mine) … Did you mean SPECTER?
Kiffi,
Thanks for helping John out with his grammatical slip.
I hope you are right, and that when the statute of limitations runs out, the case will be closed, and everything in Goodhue’s investigation will finally be made available publicly.
Then we’ll all be able to decide for ourselves what did or did not go on – and what it was that got Gary Smith so excited about his boss.
By 6 years from now, the Lee Lansing trial might even be resolved – including any appeals. So 6 years from now sounds like a good moment for final closure – for anyone who isn’t already satisfied simply because Lansing, Roder, and Smith are no longer involved in city politics.
Curt, In the broad context that phrase means that the immunity given to Roder means that Roder couldn’t still be charged with a crime if someone other Roder provides incriminating evidence.
Probably the best approach is to wait until Roder makes a formal demand for the money. Then the contract can be reviewed to see if the City is obligated.
John: There is no “charge”. There has been a supposed allegation by Smith which appears to have no credible support. However, if there had been an offense, I believe the statute of limitations is three years in Minnesota. If it is a federal charge (mortgage fraud?), I wouldn’t know the statute (but the feds don’t follow the rules anyhow).
John and David, according to the Northfield News from August 2007, here is what Smith had on Roder:
According to Betcher, the information forwarded to him was not an investigation, per se. He called it more so a short summary of issues that have been raised, he said.
“It’s a very general inquiry right now,” Betcher said. “We haven’t got any of the facts supporting the information of the issues raised. We haven’t done the fact-finding yet.”
A cynic might speculate that Smith’s “investigation” began and ended very shortly after he received a phone call requesting his presence at a disciplinary hearing–a hearing to which he brought his two lawyers. (I could be wrong, but time will tell.)
http://northfieldnews.com/news.php?viewStory=25313
Curt,
A non-cynical person might reach the same conclusion.
Time will, as you say, tell.
Thanks for digging up (Mr.?) Betcher’s quote.
Curt : think you might be interested to listen to David Hvistendahl’s radio show of two weeks ago wherein he recounts the events of the ‘disciplinary’ Meeting, at which he was present , blow by blow.
After a ‘revelation’, of which the city attorney was expecting a big ‘win’, when the nature of the revealed document is identified, the city attorney abruptly ends the meeting. Doesn’t sound like a win for the city’s (administrator’s) side to me.
Listen to it; see what you think…
P.S. by the way, the violation of a computer system , which is said to be the Chief’s complaint, and if accurate would be a Federal violation, is exactly what the kids on the street were saying about two years ago, right at this time!
Your experience might also be that the kids often seem to know what’s up!
After 20,000 pages of documents in this intertwined case, do you think what is said two years ago, Re: “we haven’t done the fact finding yet”, bears any relevance at this point?
If so, then I say a whole bunch of trees, and probably at least one copying machine, have been ‘killed’ for no end purpose.
Curt: Thanks for the information. Given what Betcher said before about Smith’s allegations, and the non-decision to prosecute, I would think that the file would now be available to the public.
Kiffi: I am troubled that our police chief is the only one in town who has access to a Homeland Security computer database or computer. I am even more troubled that Smith was hiding dirt on Roder on that computer.
Our police chief should never be an agent of the feds. Period. And, he should not be using his computer for his own personal use. Period. I am a little more comforted with Obama as president, and Taylor as police chief, but not a lot. This needs to be changed. Period.
Kiffi,
I (now) know (again) what was said by Betcher regarding Mr. Smith’s ‘investigation.’ I also know that in the 20,000 pages turned up since that point, nothing added up to a prosecutable case against Mr. Roder.
Given the search warrants that have been executed, and the charges that have been filed, it seems quite likely that a lion’s share of the 20,000 pages of documents (your number – I’m not sure where you got it) is about Mr. Lansing and his financial/political dealings.
On the other hand, apparently, there’s not all that much “credible” evidence in there about Mr. Roder.
David: I do not believe there is a choice as to who has access to a HS computer in our community; who would be a better choice than the Police Chief? As far as I understand ( from information about the police offices at the Safety Center) there were procedures put in place in which Northfield had no choice.
I don’t like the whole HS law and a lot of the ways it is used, but I can’t think who would be better to monitor that computer, if it MUST be here, than the Chief of Police. I do not think having such a computer in the police station implicitly makes the chief an “agent” of the feds; I agree that should be offensive to an American citizen.
However, you as an attorney, are an “agent” of the courts; maybe that does not always sit well with you, depending on the disposition of the court?
I can’t comment on your other comments re what the possible ” Roder” content was on the computer, and I agree that such a computer has no place being used for personal issues.
You’ll get NO argument from me on “there’s a lot that needs to be changed”!
Patrick: I heard the number (20K) in the Rice County Courtroom in Faribault, in an Omnibus hearing, from the Goodhue County Attorneys, Mr. Betcher and Ms. Lee.
You rely on hearsay, and what you read in the newspaper; I have been in every relevant courtroom proceeding. Please do not presume that information which someone else has heard firsthand, and which you have not heard at all, is false. It is insulting.
Ask your friend, Councilor Denison, he was there … although I do not think that was at the same hearing where Mr. Betcher walked up to where Councilor Denison sat in the back row, and said “Hi, Jon; How are you?”
Obviously, even at that time, some weeks or months back, they had a first-name acquaintance.
Kiffi,
Perhaps some day, after I am retired or unemployed, and my children have grown up, I will have time to attend every civic meeting and court case, as you do. Perhaps even then, I’ll have more important things (IMO) to do with my time.
So what did you learn from the courtroom proceedings that is relevant to the non-prosecution of Al Roder? Please be specific – that way, I’ll be able to use you as a hearsay source, rather than just hearing that you think you know what really is going on because you were at a court proceeding tangentially related to the subject, and you say so.
Patrick: I answered you specifically on your 20 K pages question, and you go on to further insult me.
Seems to me we’ve been spending about equal time here tonight … BUT
I give up; you’re way more combative than I… you get the Prize!
TQR,MCPOLG ! Hooray… Congratulations to the Winner!
Kiffi- No, I meant scepter, as in a sword or the blade of a guilotine, and the anticipation that it might fall at any unannounced time and lop off the person’s head.
Sorry, john, “scepter” carries no such meaning. It’s pretty strictly a royal rod or wand, which can at best be used as a cudgel. Could you have had “scimitar” in mind?
Kiffi: I can’t think of a worse place for Homeland Security information. Do you want a man with a gun walking around with “secret” information about us?
It appears that Smith was hiding his personal agenda on the HS part of the computer. The consequences to the City were significant. If Smith hadn’t been able to pull this trump card of the HS computer, he would have been dealt with like any other employee. As it was, he held the City hostage.
Kiffi and David, if Smith was investigating the illegal viewing of sensitive data on his safety center computer, as he says in today’s News, he should have been delighted when the city’s attorney pulled out the “smoking gun” document that proved Smith’s case. This was not the case.
Instead of notifying the feds that the Homeland Security Computer had been violated–which an ethical cop would have done–Hvistendahl called a break.
Then Smith, who looked vigorous preening before the Twin Cities TV and print media in his press conference only a week before, apparently now experienced a paroxysm of debilitating sleep apnea and required a medical leave of absence, effective immediately.
This leave of absence protected Smith from facing the combined city council/school board meeting(the next day, IIRC) in which Smith’s poor assistant Schroeder had his hide nailed to the wall as a surrogate for Smith. It protected Smith from being fired and gave him protection while found another job.
The whole story of Hvistendahl, Roder and Smith’s meeting is fishy–and only one side of the story has been told. The city hasn’t given their side of the story.
Kiffi, Hvistendahl is working for Smith. Taking Hvistendahl’s statements on his Law Review Infomercial at face value is naive.
You wouldn’t take Lillehaug’s assessment of Roder’s situation at face value, and you should be just as skeptical of Hvistendahl.
Barry- I stand corrected. The word I should have used was “scimitar”. I have found that many of the SE Iowa sayings I grew up with were not grammatically correct.
John,
I understand your point either way – and did so the first time round.
Just for fun:
For a more mythical reference, you could always consider the Sword of Damocles.
Curt: I am VERY skeptical of The Law Review radio show, for the most part because the issue presented on one show is then not followed up in any relationship in the further discussion of a related subject: i.e. in what you refer to as the disciplinary meeting, Roger Knutson is the city’s attorney, supporting Mr. Roder’s POV and he (RK) shuts the meeting down when Smith convinces his attorneys that he(Smith) needs to tell what the revealed document is and does tell; then some months later Mr. Knutson is negotiating the Severance agreement for Mr. Roder and telling the council that it is in their best interest to pay a 25K ‘fee’ to Mr. Roder so he won’t sue the city , as well as pay his legal costs, forever!
(And yes, it has in some instances, seemed like an infomercial)
Yeah, I know who Hvistendahl has for a client(Smith), and who Attrny. Knutson has for a client(NF), and I think the whole thing is FUBAR , beyond belief, and I also know that three councilors who voted for negotiating all the deals with Mr. Roder (which we will be paying for for a long time), are still there, and it is to their great advantage to never be perceived as having made any wrong choices.! (Hence, information leaks from City Hall?)
*What makes me sickest of all, is that the Law seems not to be about right or wrong anymore; it would seem to be about who is the most skillfull at maneuvering.*
I still want to know this: 1. Betcher says that the Roder immunity letter is NOT a public document; if not why does an officer of the court get to give it to the paper? (Feds and their associates don’t play by the rules as David Ludescher said?)
2. Does an immunity letter have to be agreed to and signed by a judge, as some attorneys in town have said?
3. Does the existence of active charges having been brought, or not, affect the allowably public nature of such an immunity or plea bargain offer? i.e. after charges are brought, documentation becomes public which has not been before.
That’s just the beginning of what I want to know…
Kiffi:
Hope this helps! David and I talked in depth about the letter and its ramifications on last night’s law review show, if you have any further questions.
I don’t know why my comment ended up boxed like that….I’m not quoting anyone; these are my comments.
This is why Britt Ackerman, SuperEsquire is my favorite lawyer in Northfield. She’s dangerously thoughtful, and she delivers those thoughts thoughtfully so, each wrapped in its own neat thought-box, like a present of thoughtfulness. Thanks, Britt.
The love-fest is completely mutual, Brendon.
Britt, the software ‘theme’ puts bulleted items in indented boxes like that, whereas quoted text has a black line with the indents like in comment #7 above.
Wow! I hope so; incomplete-mutuality is an awful lot like being alone… (sniffle, sniffle)
***SPECIAL LAWYERING ADVERTISEMENT***
Everyone call Britt now; she’s have a special on law things! Buy two opinions from her at regular price, and she’ll give the third opinion (of equal or lesser value) for $19.95!
Offer not valid in New York or South Carolina or on off-shore oil rigs.
Offer not transferable to Attorneys Hahn or Dorsey.
Satisfaction guaranteed unless you’re insatiable.
“having” or “havin'” – not “have”… D’oh.
FAUX NEWS DISCLAIMER: I do not endorse or support the offer posted by Mr. Etter above, and the faux offer may very well be unethical per se!
(I will refrain from numbered bullet points in the future, Griff, as this is apparently a handgun and ammunition free forum!)
Sorry, I meant to write:
SPECIAL LAWYERING ADVERTISEMENT
Everyone “call” Britt “now”; she’s having a “special” on “law things”! Buy two opinions from her at “regular” price, and she’ll give the third opinion (of equal or lesser subjective “value”) for “$19.95”!
“Offer” “not” valid in New York or South “Carolina” or on “off-shore oil” rigs.
“Offer” not transferable to Attorneys “Hahn” or Dorsey.
Satisfaction “guaranteed” unless you’re “insatiable”.
Is that better, Britt? The quotation marks give you some wiggle-room, or can just make the words seem sarcastic. Flexible interpretative structuring makes for ethical squishiness! You know, like a Nerf football…
Thanks, Britt… what a great way to get free legal advice!
Listened to the show and actually found it raised as many questions as it answered; but that’s the way the law goes for us non-legal types.
Here’s a piece of free legal advice for you: Watch out for that smarty-smart talkin’ Brendon Etter!
(giggles to himself)
Kiffi’s in love with me!
(continues giggling)
and…
then…
he…
(blushes)
Britt,
Whether it’s a ‘Special Lawyering Advertisement’ or not, your most recent show was quite interesting. Thanks.
I have to admit, I never thought I’d live in a town that could provide enough subject matter to warrant a weekly radio show on the law, but you have never lacked for interesting subject matter thus far.*
*: except for the time when David went on about the ‘bar association river cruise’ or whatever that was.
Stupid formatting theme.
Brendon- Does that $19.95 include shipping and handling and applicable sales tax?
and…
then…
he…
(blushes) before fainting dead away at the thought of having such a wicked old 73-year old woman, and not even one with a single drop of Scandi-blood, but radiating the shocking aura of a fallen Christian, part native American, “malevolent pokenose”, who only the perceptive Curt Benson could perceive through the aging old lady exterior so brashly presented to the world!
Enough of this nonsense; We need a good newspaper, with an experienced investigative journalist, and a management dedicated to providing the community with provocative, substantive news and analysis…
How are we going to get it? It can be a photocopied broadsheet; it need not be a traditional style newspaper, but it must have the best traditional Fourth Estate values… Could it be financed in this community? enough people have talked about it… whose got the $$$?
(tee hee)
Well-written, Ye Nose of Poke!
No. No, it does not.
Shipping & Handling = $49.95
Shipping & Mishandling = $39.95
Misshipping & Handling = $5.95 (plus applicable reshipping and rehandling fees, which are steep)
Misshipping & Mishandling = $15.43
Notshipping & Unhandling = almost free
Curt: I agree. There isn’t much credence to Smith’s statements in today’s paper. (Although who knows if he was quoted correctly.) Reporting the federal stuff doesn’t help his employment situation. Not reporting it does.
We need to get the federal crap out of the police department’s office. What does Northfield or the US gain from this info?
Patrick- Thanks for the classical reference. It is always good to have some back-up material available in case someone gets mythed with one of my comments.
Brendon- That is great! Tell me, do you operate a parcel delivery service on the side during down times at the NAG?
Kiffi- I don’t think there can be any such thing as an unbiased newspaper. I think all of us have a tendemcy to view those news sources that we agree with as unbiased sources. It is just part of human nature. Show me a news source that nobody agrees with, and it is probably as unbiased as you can get.
Also, how did we get from the Goodhue report and its seeming inconclusiveness to a need for a good newspaper? If the NN reported only what could be gleaned from and verified by public records, we would still have people claiming the reporting was incomplete
Britt: Is there any way the City Council can get a copy of Smith’s allegations? Smith’s gone, Roder’s gone, and the there are no charges. When do our representatives get a chance to see this stuff?
John: I believe the newspaper is an integral part of the ‘problem’ in the community, that’s how I got there…
And, I think it’s a lot more relevant than the insertion of abortion or same-sex marriage issues, which seem to have gotten inserted (by you?) in many disparate threads.
I can read , John, and can recognize bias, and can also take that into account and evaluate it to get a perspective on what I’m reading.
I can also fully recognize when only one side of a story is being told, and when the pertinent questions that need to be asked are not being asked.
Furthermore, and I think conclusively: the first sentence in the original post (8.10.2009) is a reference to an article in the newspaper…
Kiffi,
We know your opinion of the Nfld News. Interestingly, the journalistic community in this state at large does not seem to agree – having recently awarded the paper a prize for the best investigative report in a small MN paper for 2008.
Perfection is, of course, hard to achieve, but it seems that the local newspaper has done a relatively good job given what it is, and the resources that it has. Is it not possible that your greatest disappointment with the newspaper is simply that its reporters and editors do not perceive the problems of this town in exactly the same way that you do? Witness, for example, your interpretation of Jon Denison’s interaction with Al Roder’s letter – versus the actual law regarding such matters as explained on this site by Britt Ackerman. You see a problem there, while the law does not seem to match your interpretation of it.
Perhaps you are right, and you (and persons who see thingsin a manner similar to yours) should hire your own journalist to investigate the things you are most concerned about. Other people have done it. It is sometimes called advocacy journalism. (At times in my life, I have been an advocate for advocacy journalism. One of the better such papers has been the Madison Isthmus.)
Kiffi,
Interestingly, the journalistic community in this state at large does not seem to agree with your opinion of the Nfld News – having recently awarded the paper a prize for the best investigative report in a small MN paper for 2008.
Perfection is, of course, hard to achieve, but it seems that the local newspaper has done a relatively good job given what it is, and the resources that it has. Is it not possible that your greatest disappointment with the newspaper is simply that its reporters and editors do not perceive the problems of this town in exactly the same way that you do? Witness, for example, your interpretation of Jon Denison’s interaction with Al Roder’s letter – versus the actual law regarding such matters as explained on this site by Britt Ackerman. You see a problem there, while the law does not seem to match your interpretation of it.
Perhaps you are right, and you (and persons who see things in a manner similar to yours) should find (or become) journalists to investigate the things you are most concerned about. Other people have done it. It is sometimes called advocacy journalism.* At times in my life – when I did not believe that the mainstream press adequately or accurately covered an issue – I have been an advocate for advocacy journalism. One of the better such advocates papers has been the Madison Isthmus.
*: search Wikipedia for “advocacy journalism.”
Kiffi: The problem is the lack of credible sources of information and truth. The proliferation of media outlets has actually made matters worse, not better.
An investigative journalist could not have discovered anything further. Simply put, Roder was always presumed innocent. The refusal to prosecute is a legal, though not necessarily a contractual, vindication of that assumption. Other than someone getting Smith’s accusations, what do you think can be done?
Patrick: Sorry, but disagree with you entirely, and also find your instructive tone re: ‘advocacy journalism’ offensive.
I am not in favor of ‘advocacy journalism’; I am in favor of good solid journalistic values which know how to ask enough questions to present ALL sides of an issue.
Obviously, since you often link to TPM, and that is my browser home page, we are both familiar with investigative/good journalism. Maybe your reason for linking there is less clear than I had thought.
Kiffi, you wrote,
I’m sorry, I don’t follow your point.
Kiffi, you wrote:
I disagree with your assertion that ‘solid journalistic values’ requires one to ‘present ALL sides of an issue.’
Some sides on an issue are simply wrong, and need not be presented. Take, for a non-Northfield example, health care reform. When describing the contents of the various health care reform proposals, is it really necessary to report all sides on the issue? Do you want to give equal weight to the people who claim that the bills include a plan to ‘euthanize old persons,’ or that the bills will allow the government to withdraw money directly from any person’s bank account at will?
At best, such patently false notions should be briefly addressed with language such as, “Despite some claims to the contrary, the House Ways and Means Committee draft health care reform bill does NOT contain any proposal to euthanize old persons.”
It seems to me that the goal of a journalist is to gather all relevant information, and distill it down to an accurate presentation of the truth – as best as it can be determined and described, within the limitations of available knowledge and available time/space constraints.
Finally, Kiffi, you wrote:
Actually, Kiffi, I would consider Talking Points Memo to be a very good example of investigative journalism that is also advocacy journalism.
Talking Points Memo strives to be scrupulously accurate in what it reports – but it makes no pretense of being free from an editorial point of view in its reporting.
Patrick: you do not follow my point; I do not follow your purpose.
Obviously you and I could argue around each other forever.
Let’s not bore others with our personal disagreements, which in all these ‘shelled’ comments only serve to clog up the thread.
Kiffi,
That’s very gracious of you.
Patrick & Kiffi- Spoilsports!
John:
:P!
🙂
Today’s NFNews offers an evaluation of the ‘immunity’ offer to Mr. Roder that puts a different aspect on to what had been just a local, possibly biased, perspective.
Good to see the News going outside the community for an opinion; something that they rarely do. We’re all “up to here” with tolerance of the opposing local opinions, obviously … and why not; they’ve been argued for two years..
http://northfieldnews.com/news.php?viewStory=49443
A good, brief article on the immunity offer, and what it might mean.
Given the expensive task of prosecuting Lee Lansing, the likelihood for very little remuneration for the city (we don’t get much satisfaction from prison or a guilty verdict or even a fine that the financially-strapped fromer-mayor is unlikely to be able to pay)–why would we give up on the chance of NOT paying Al Roder more severance and legal fees–
Don’t grant immunity–drop the charges against Lansing and save everybody a bunch of money, especially the court system.
Al Roder owes the city money is the title of Nfld News Managing Editor Suzy Rook’s column last week.
Item 6 on tonight’s Council Agenda: Consideration of Request for Payment of Attorney Fees (Roder). Motion:
Griff- Maybe this is just a leverage move. You pay me my severance pay, I’ll pay the $220.17 utility bill. You don’t pay me, I won’t pay you. Childish, perhaps, but it happens all too often in business and politics.
I wonder what the new law firm representing Northfield would say about paying severance and legal fees to Roder. Would be interesting to have a second opinion. Of course, if this motion is passed tonight, it will be too late.
I cannot believe the city of Northfield is paying more legal fees for Al Roder. What a waste of city money. In the words of Nancy Reagan, “Just Say NO!”
While they are at it, the City Council should consider telling the Goodhue County Attorney to drop the Lansing case. There is nothing to be gained, and a lot to be lost by his prosecution.