Election 2008 discussion: Northfield School Board – candidates and issues

One of the issues that concerns me is the apparent need for more classroom space at the elementary school level. There was a story about this issue in the Northfield News back in late June. The story mentions that the school board was interested in exploring four options: “refitting the middle school to house the fifth grade, leasing space in existing community buildings for school programs, building a large addition to Sibley Elementary, [or] constructing a new elementary school.” The cost range: $135,000 a year for portable classroom space to $11.7 million for a new elementary building. A significant expense in any case. I’d be interested in what people have to say about this issue. Can any current board members weigh in on where things stand? I, personally, am interested in the option of reusing Longfellow School, a building that already contains classroom space and has already undergone renovations.

Curt: As I understand it (see the information on math standards available here at the state Department of Education website), all students must have an Algebra I credit by the end of eighth grade, and Algebra II to graduate from high school. The avowed intent of moving the Algebra I requirement to 8th grade (according to the FAQs posted on the DoE website) is to allow students more time in high school to complete Algebra II, and to give them the opportunity “to study more advanced mathematical topics in 12th grade.” I would be interested how the middle school and high school would allocate math courses under this new standard. It seems, on the face of it, that more resources would be needed at the middle school level to get all students through Algebra I by the end of 8th grade. Would there then be the resources left over for those more advanced courses in 12th grade?

Personally, I don’t see the point of forcing Algebra I on all 8th graders. It seems arbitrary and inflexible and impatient, and insensitive to the different paces at which different students learn. I worry about rushing students, and putting too much pressure on them to meet unrealistically high expectations. Education is not a race.

I raced through math in high school out of a sense of obligation; I struggled, but I always managed to pull off good grades until I suffered a spectacular collapse in calculus. I’ve forgotten most of the advanced math I ever learned. I would have benefited from more flexibility, more remediation, more emphasis on developing my interest and less pressure to develop skills that were still beyond my grasp.

Learning math isn’t all about learning math. It it is a tool to show the mind how to organize and move from step to logical step in the problem solving mode. It is what we do best as humans, solve problems.

This is only true when we do not run after money and power and others to solve our problems for us. It is only true when we realize necessity is the mother of invention, not money, not politicians. If we continue to throw blame around and then money after blame, we will still have kids who haven’t learned much beyond how to take dollar bills and coins from McDonald’s cash drawers according to the numbers at the top of the register.

I taught school and I know that it doesn’t take a lot of money to teach kids. It takes a lot of money to pay people more money. The real issue is not education, but how much money educators think they need.

Our forefathers and mothers taught kids in one room buildings with little else than a few books and a burning wood stove. Look around at these beautiful schools most kids now attend. And for some reason, learning cannot go on here, to where kids can come out reading at a grammar school level and do a few simple math problems of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Come on. Send your kids over to me and by the end of the year, I’ll have them balancing your check book and reading over mortgage contracts accurately. My fee, priceless.

My vote, Peter Millin, it should be Peter, one in a Million!

Curt said

It was my impression that this math teacher (and she said everyone in the department was in agreement) believes this is the wrong way to go. Not every student needs math to the trig level, or has the aptitude to succeed at that level. And that it is wrong to eliminate the higher level math electives. (I hope I am communicating this correctly.)

Interesting. I like the tougher standards, and I wish we went back to using the colleges more… at least we didn’t seem to have as many AP classes in town when I went to NHS. Why not use the colleges? I know teachers advocated for more choice at NHS, even offering to hold AP classes before school started (this was in the ’80’s) but… if we’re down financially, why not use the colleges? If transportation is an issue, I wonder how much that would cost to fix.

What is more expensive, AP classes, or classes at Olaf and Carleton…

Rod, thanks for providing the appropriate information above.

The teacher who pointed out this issue did not suggest a remedy, But since it is a state mandate, it makes sense to talk to Dahle and Bly about this. I sent them emails asking them to chime in here.

Holly and Patrick: Northfield High School students can enroll in college courses through a program known as the Post-Secondary Enrollment Option (PSEO). I believe that, at St. Olaf and Carleton, this option is limited to high school seniors. There’s more information at the high school guidance office webpage on College Credit Opportunities. My experience with PSEO has been limited to my work as a tutor for homeschoolers in the Twin Cities, who often take PSEO classes at the U of M.

I think that Carleton, at any rate, may become more active in offering opportunities for local high school students as it develops its Academic Civic Engagement program. Yes, the resources are there, and should be explored.

Rob Hardy for School Board

Some colleges, including Stanton and MIT, offer free courses online, for advanced students and all others…build a robot!

http://www.deviceguru.com/2008/09/17/stanford-frees-cs-robotics-courses/

Peter, you are more than welcome.

(Please excuse my long post.) I find the web conversation on math standards interesting. I have been hearing about these standards from math teachers, in my House District. Many of their comments are echo these excerpts from the Statement of the Minnesota Council of Teachers of Mathematics regarding Minnesota Mathematics Academic Standards
http://www.mctm.org/paper2.php

“We respect the hard work contributed by the members of the Academic Standards Committee. Nevertheless, we have serious concerns with the standards proposed by the committee. These concerns include:

“· Many of the skills identified in the standards, particularly in grades K-8, are placed at a grade level where it is unrealistic to expect mastery by the vast majority of students. This is extremely important as the new standards will define the assessments used to meet the testing requirements of “No Child Left Behind”.

“· The proposed standards do not reflect best practices found in the current research on students’ learning of mathematics.

“· The basic skills defined in these documents are necessary but not sufficient for today’s needs.
“· The proposed standards are uneven and lack integration and coordination within and across grade levels.
“· The proposed standards return us to a superficial learning of mathematics characterized by Third International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) as an approach to mathematics that is a “mile-wide and an inch deep”.

“· The proposed standards are lists of disconnected and isolated skills that leave students unprepared for further education and eventual workplace uses of mathematics.

“Minnesota citizens have already invested 175 million dollars in the development of its current standards (Star Tribune, March 16, 2003). Local school districts have invested additional millions in the implementation of these standards. Since this document will provide direction for all Minnesota students for years to come, it is important that the product continue the good work already occurring in Minnesota classrooms. It must also provide a scaffold for mathematics learning that will be broadly supported by all stakeholders.

“Having invested a significant amount of time and money in the creation of the existing Frameworks standards and corresponding Mathematics Benchmarks, the state of Minnesota would be demonstrating fiscal responsibility by utilizing those resources. In addition, Minnesota students are doing well in mathematics. It seems inadvisable to start over.”

I have had several conversations with Rep. Carlos Mariani, Chair of the House Education Committee about the Math standards and how we ought to proceed. He is a good listener and has shown an interest in discussing how to shape the standards in the best interests of students.

There is bi-partisan support for looking carefully at the adverse effects of the No Child Left Behind Act and how it has shaped public education in Minnesota. We have learned that there is not agreement on what is best for students even among researchers and specialists.

The conversation seems to echo what I have seen as the long standing debate between Progressive Educators (like John Dewey, Herb Kohl, John Holt, Alfie Kohn, Jonathan Kozol and Deborah Meier) and what might be called more classical educators (like Diane Ravitch, Edward L. Thorndike, E.D. Hirsch and others). Much of the debate focuses on developing systems that allow and support students to discover their strengths and interests as opposed to systems that shape students learning toward desired results. It is also influenced by basic beliefs about intelligence and theories about learning, equality and fairness as well as, weighing the needs of society against the needs of individuals.

I will identify myself as a progressive educator and would say that most of our systems do not reflect my core beliefs but the majority of policy makers do not share my perspective. That doesn’t stop me from participating in the conversation and trying to create some balance.

However, the legislature as a body does not allow much opportunity for such lofty debates and for the most part we debate policies that come before us without examining deeply the source or the implications of the theories behind them.

The public wants accountability both in what their tax dollars are spent on and what their children learn. I believe all legislators want students to be challenged and to develop to the best of their abilities. I think they also see the value in an educated workforce and want the system to run as efficiently as it can. We are not united in our beliefs about public vs private systems but share a commitment that at least our constitution tells us we must provide education to our young people.

I think what ever accountability system we develop it should aim at continuous improvement of the system to assure high quality but should not standardize the system so that it can’t respond to individual needs and desires. The current system I believe fails miserably at this. It is a laudable goal to assure all students succeed in school but I believe a system that encouraged administrators and educators to gain the skills of continuous improvement would go much further toward making this happen.

Finally, I would add that as a nation, we would have more wisely spent the many dollars we have spent on “No Child Left Behind” so far by investing in comprehensive early childhood programs aimed at those families that struggle the most to succeed in our society.

David,
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts and insights!

oh, thanks David

Peter –
Sorry it has taken me awhile to get back to you on this my campaign keeps me from spending much time online.

Last year I started working on a bill that would try to address this in a more comprehensive way. Because, I believe this issue is bigger than might first appear. I am concerned about the direction the standardization of our education system is taking us because I think it encourages one path – making the assumption that all benefit from the college prep track and I don’t think that is necessarily true.

I value my liberal arts education and think the liberal arts are important but that type of education is not for everyone. I think an error of the past is that assumptions have been made that promoted racism and support class distinctions and put one type of education above another and I do not want to encourage that. But in my teaching and learning I have learned that regardless of class and race students have different interests and tendencies. We sell them short when we either track them based on what we think is best or if we exclude one type of learning because it is deemed less important than another.

I believe that the industrial arts are as critical to our society as the creative arts and the art of science and the pursuit of basic knowledge is as critical as abstract knowledge but not for every individual. I think there is a reason that our species produces young people with different skills and propensities and when we school it out of them in pursuit of valuing one type of standardized learning over others we are in error.

That is not to say there should not be effort to provide a basic education or set of skills. But to establish beyond that – a set of knowledge that all must learn and then forget once they are out of school seems absurd. To say nothing of the shaming and ridicule that is attached to those who just don’t find the full curriculum interesting or relevant. We do not have to train everyone to be a chemical engineer.

So my recommendation is really to learn to teach the brain, offer multiple experiences intellectual and motor not looking for proficiency as much as interest. Offer time in classes as early as makes sense in skill development in a variety of areas and make connections to work and career as positive and fulfilling not one choice being lesser than another. Such as Malcolm X reported experiencing when he said he wanted to be a lawyer and his teacher told him ‘the best a colored person should strive for is to be a carpenter’ thus devaluing a black person and a skilled trade in the same breath. Now I don’t think things as blatant as this necessarily happen today but they happen in subtle ways. Educators should be careful not to promote these kinds of prejudiced messages and be trained to recognize and encourage a wide variety of skills beyond the basic skills of reading, speaking, writing and math.

The original idea behind the PSEO legislation that has been mentioned in this track served to interest college bound students in higher education and to get started but also to keep kids in school as opposed to dropping out due to lack of interest. This is why Alternative schools, established as part of the High School Graduation Incentives Programs, utilized PSEO to encourage students to attend trade and vocational schools while in High School they would stay enrolled and get their High School diplomas.

I think students who are ready to move on to other kinds of learning should have the opportunity to do so by 10th grade. We should make sure we have programs for them and also have programs for those students who are not ready and need high school for the time it takes them to figure that out. School should offer them not only information and skills for work but the experience of self discovery they need to answer the questions that help prepare them for adult life and participation in our democracy. That is not to say there are not students who will need what current high schools offer to get ready for a rigorous college experience as well but not all students need or want that.

Many schools say it is their aim to prepare students for life and good citizenship but the regime of tests and the high attention to information and certain kinds of knowledge distracts them from attending to these goals.

A number of years ago I had a conversation with Don Glines, a futurist educator who started his own public school (The Wilson School in Mankato) in the ‘60s based on the idea of letting students choose what they wanted to study. He offered serious research that showed that this type of school produced the best results. He believed that the best thing that could happen to American education is that the walls of the schools would fall away and as soon as they were ready students would be encouraged to learn in communities and the world to do the work that needs to be done. Students would find challenges that suited them and get busy meeting those challenges and contributing to society.

I can’t say that he’s right but there is something about his idea that seems very attractive, as I talk to students who seem turned off by school and get very engaged in life once they have a job that means something to them.

But Peter and others – I would be very interested to hear what your ideas are on this subject. I am sure it is something we will be talking about in the legislature for years to come and hearing your thoughts and experiences would be most enlightening.

Thanks!

First of all, Griff and Tracy and Ross, thanks for setting up this discussion forum.

In general, I am a firm supporter of charter schools, and I think Northfield has two excellent examples. Prairie Creek has a long tradition of excellence, and after five years in existence ARTech continues to build on a solid foundation and fill an important role in the community. Not all students are alike, and not all thrive in the more traditional learning environment of the public schools. ARTech’s project-based learning approach is well-suited to the educational needs of certain students.

The deciding factor on charter schools should be their ability in producing results.A clear cut measurement of this depends on which publications you read.

Opinions and results vary widely on their ability to provide better or equal results when compared to public schools. I think a lot depends of it depends more on the individual teacher then necessarily on the type of school.

I also believe that not every child learns the same way and not every child will do well in a strict academic setting.
We should acknowledge this and provide alternatives to those students and maybe charter schools could fill that role.

In short I will support all options that further our cause of providing a good education and make us more competitive in a global market.

Hi, Tracy! I’m quite interested in homeschooling. My own children are not homeschooled, but I’ve worked as a tutor for homeschoolers, and have come away from the experience very supportive of homeschooling as an option for some highly-motivated and self-directed students and their families. My favorite homeschooler, who is like a daughter to me, is now a National Merit Scholar at Macalester.

The district website has homeschooling information available here. Families are able, for example, to borrow textbooks for use in homeschooling. But I know that one of the difficulties that some homeschoolers have faced is access to proper lab equipment and space for sciences like biology and chemistry.

In the Twin Cities, I worked with a homeschooling cooperative that pooled resources to hire teachers in subjects like chemistry (I taught writing and ancient history for the cooperative), and perhaps in Northfield there are resources available through the colleges. In the Cities, homeschoolers have also formed homeschool theater companies, and have sent large groups each summer to NBTSC (Not Back to School Camp), an end-of-summer camp for “unschoolers.” There seems to be a thriving culture of homeschooling in Minnesota. There is also a state-wide organization, the Minnesota Homeschoolers’ Alliance to support homeschoolers.

I would, of course, love to hear from Northfielders involved in homeschooling to learn what concerns they have, and what support they feel they need. And I’m still available if anyone wants to learn Latin!

I have mixed feelings about Charter Schools. In some instances I feel they are beneficial to students whom may struggle in a “traditional” setting. But I also feel there needs to be measurable results and accountability from Charter Schools particularly when sponsored by the public school system.

I support the decision to “not” sponsor the Village School.
The Prairie Creek School seems to function well and friends whom had children there have good things to day about it.
I see ARTech as a school that is pretty narrow in it’s focus. That maybe the wrong viewpoint but from discussions with parents and students whom attend that is the impression I get. Is that a good thing? Does it provide a comprehensive education? It maybe the place for some kids as I believe we often try to fit the “round” peg in the “square” hole in Public Education. Kids learn differently, some need alternative methods and we need to make sure these methods are available.

As for Homeschooling, I will state that I often wish we had done that or should I say, had the ability to do so with our children. I know a number of families that home school their kids and for the most part they are well educated and well rounded. The opportunities are available for these students to be involved and participate in Public School activities as they should be able to as they pay taxes also.

The tone of Griff’s messages prodding us to ask questions of the School Board candidates has gotten increasingly harsh.

Well okeh then, here is my (rather predictable) question:

Will you do the arithmetic on the impact of a referendum not only on a per $100,000 value of a residential property calculation but also on the per $100,000 value of a commercial property calculation before making your decision to initiate a referendum and then acknowledge, through your public statement, that impact?

Peter #38 – I’m not clear on your position regarding charter schools. Can you clarify? Thanks.

Ross,
I can help you a bit with your concern about property owners being able to calculate the impact of a levy referendum. When the Northfield School District went to the voters in 2006, there was a worksheet on the district website to help property owners figure out their individual tax rate for the levies. That page is no longer on the website; however this year the Osseo School District is running a two-question campaign that is very similar to the 2006 campaign in Northfield. Here is the link for that service.

http://www.ehlers-inc.info/taxInformation/Osseo/index.php#placeholder

Tom Stringer, Business Director of Northfield Schools provided me with this link. I am sure Northfield would provide this tool in the event of any future levy campaign.

Bright: The school board has policies and procedures for regular performance reviews of both non-tenured and tenured teachers. Teachers also participate in regular professional development. These things, I think, are best handled by professional staff who have the expertise to intervene in positive and constructive ways to help teachers improve. For probationary teachers, recommendations about tenure, based upon thorough review, are passed along to the school board for approval. I don’t think the school board has the professional expertise to intervene directly, but I think it can certainly express its concern to the proper professional staff.

There are many reasons a teacher may be ineffective. I know that I am more effective as a teacher in a Carleton classroom with eight highly motivated students than I was in a classroom of 40 students in Minneapolis, where I had to come in before dawn to xerox pages from the textbook (because there weren’t enough to go around) and where some of the students sat on boxes in the back of the classroom (because there weren’t enough desks). I was a more effective teacher as a substitute in Northfield, where I felt like other teachers were looking out for me and helping me along, than I was in other places where I was dropped into a classroom with no support from anyone. Teachers must have the resources and the support they need to be effective, and must feel they belong to a supportive professional community.

The school already does a good job in educating children on drugs. All of my three children are very much aware of the dangers on drug and alcohol use.
At home I try to reinforce what the school is teaching.
None of this is a guarantee that my children will never do drugs or alcohol. We all do the best we can.

Aside from an open discussion and education on drugs the school has the responsibility to support law enforcement in their efforts.

A zero tolerance law should be the basis of all actions.
We have to be tough,vigilant but show support when needed.
If we really have evidence of wide spread usage I would go as far as supporting occasional random bag and locker checks. Drug sniffing dogs could really have a great impact.
This might sound radical, but I think Drugs and alcohol are to much of a threat to all children.

Okay, I’ll jump in to break Griff’s consecutive comment streak. One drug-sniffing dogs: I would be inclined to oppose their use in the schools, primarily on Fourth Amendment grounds. Elsewhere, the ALCU has become involved in cases where drug-sniffing dogs have been used in schools. If there is probable cause to suspect a particular student, a warrant should be obtained to search that student’s locker. There are all manner of threats in our society, including illegal drug use. That’s no reason to undermine civil liberties, or to resort to drastic measures that erode community trust and (if used too often or too heavy-handedly) may desensitize youth to the actual severity of the problem.

Peter, thanks for getting back to me.

For all candidates, I’d like to know your feelings about the effect of charter schools on the regular school system (if any). We are not in a position to send all kids to charter schools – what is the effect of removing those kids and the associated funding from the regular public school system?

I’m not saying we should get rid of the charter schools we have, but I’m very interested in the opinions of those who would (I presume) have a vote in any new charter schools.

One final set of questions, and I’ll move on with my day!

Do you believe in evolution? Should it be taught as part of the science curriculum?

Do you believe in intelligent design/creationism? Should it be taught as part of the science curriculum?

Felicity,
(#66) Charter schools are often centers of innovation in education, and can explore educational options (such as project-based learning at ARTech) which can’t always be fully implemented in traditional public schools. Charters also often serve a different population than the traditional schools—students with different learning styles and needs, for example. Traditional schools and charters, being part of the same public school system, also share some resources (such as band programs). The high school drama program, for example, has certainly benefited from the talents of ARTech’s arts coordinator, Bob Gregory-Bjorklund. Finally, from a purely practical standpoint, charters take some of the demographic pressure off of the traditional schools. Traditional schools and charters can and should learn from each other, and support each other, and should both be held equally accountable for results.

(#67) I graduated from a small rural public school in upstate New York, received a B.A. from Oberlin College (with a double major in Latin and history) and a Ph.D. (in classics) from Brown University. I’ve also taken one education (teacher-training) course at St. Kate’s. I did my first teaching as an undergraduate at Oberlin (teaching intensive Latin over the January term), and have since taught at Brown, Gustavus Adolphus, University of St. Thomas, and Carleton and as a substitute teacher (K-12) in Northfield, Minneapolis, and Edina. I’ve also tutored homeschoolers in Latin, writing, and history. Finally, I’ve published a few essays on education, and contributed a couple of entries to the SAGE Encyclopedia of the Social and Cultural Foundations of Education. I’m happy to talk more about these experiences!

(#68) For me, evolution is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of demonstrable scientific fact. It is the foundation of modern biological sciences, and should be taught as such. Creationism and intelligent design should not be part of the science curriculum. Having said that, we do need to be able to have an informed and respectful dialogue about faith, ethics, and science. I encourage people interested in this topic, especially people of faith, to read the work of Kenneth Miller, a Brown University biologist and devout Catholic, who beautifully defends evolution and refutes intelligent design, while being highly sympathetic toward the role of faith in human lives. The books are Finding Darwin’s God and Only a Theory: Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul. Highly recommended.

Note: Now Kiffi has gone and messed up the numbering of Felicity’s questions, as reflected in my comment (currently #71)! So, as of now, change those numbers to #67, #68, #69. How does it happen that Kiffi’s comments come in out of order? Do her comments go into a special holding cell before they’re actually posted?

Question: Kevin Budig, did you describe yourself on Technorati as:

“A 50 something Angry White Male Paramedic who is tired of working his butt off saving people and watching his tax dollars get wasted by elected officials whom have no business spending money!”

and, do you run a blog about stopping David Bly and Kevin Dahle http://stopblyanddahle.blogspot.com/

If so, how do you plan to be non-partisan as a board member? You seem pretty angry.

Ms. Cairns,
Yes, yes and yes I will be non partisan because my goal is for the best education possible for our children.
All children from those that excel to those that struggle. That is what it is all about. Our children, our hope, our future.

Angry? Maybe that was the wrong term to use, but I used it and I stand on my words, frustrated would have been better.

As for the website? yes I run it and will continue to do so. I do not agree with Mr Bly or Mr Dahle, Mr Bly and I have had a few “discussions” through email, rather acrimonious ones. But he came to my door recently and we shook hands, chatted a bit and wished each other well in both our campaigns.

Although I am running for a “non-partisan” position I have a right to express my opinion, beliefs, views, as much you do on your blog, which I see has a different view then mine.

Disclaimer:

Hi Kevin,

I am truly interested in your answers and discuss my postings on LoGroNo with no one besides (occasionally, for spelling ideas) my immediate family before I post them. Our kids are in school together, so you might know that I would be interested in what school board members have to say since I have school-aged kids.

It might be your chance to clear things up, or make it clearer to me. You have already publically said all the quotes I brought forward.

I hope you continue to communicate with me.

Holly

Kevin, I’m very interested in your responses to Holly’s comments as well. Also, please see comments 67-69 for additional questions from me.

Kathie: As you know, of course, teachers undergo a probationary period of three years, after which (based upon the results of a thorough review) they may be granted tenure. I believe tenure is an important protection and benefit for good teachers, but it shouldn’t provide complete immunity for bad teachers. In the Minnesota Teacher Tenure Act, there does seem to be provision for dismissal of teachers after the granting of tenure. The statute says (122A.14, subdivision 4a):

After
the completion of such probationary period, without discharge, such teachers as are thereupon
reemployed shall continue in service and hold their respective position during good behavior and
efficient and competent service and must not be discharged or demoted except for cause after a
hearing.

The statute goes on to list “inefficiency in teaching” as a grounds for dismissal after the probationary period (subdivision 6b3). Subdivision 7 of the statute then describes the process the school board must follow to serve the teacher with notice of the charges and to provide the teacher with a fair hearing, either in front of the school board or an arbitrator.

I believe these proceedings are rare, and undoubtedly expensive for the district. I would not initiate any such action as a school board member, but were such an action initiated by another party, I would of course fulfill my duties, fairly and impartially, as laid out in the statute.

In general, as I stated earlier, I believe intervention through the professional community is the first, best, and most appropriate action. But I do understand your frustration, Kathie, and the schools should take very seriously—and take serious action to address—repeated and substantive complaints from parents about the quality of teaching.

My perspective is, of course, primarily as a parent, but having been briefly thrown to the lions as a middle school Latin teacher in E***a, I know how many factors contribute to the quality of teaching, or lack thereof. One of the things I lacked was positive support from most parents. I do believe in the importance of maintaining a positive tone as much as possible, understanding that education is a collaborative effort and teachers need the support of parents to do their job well. But, yes, in some cases a positive attitude simply isn’t enough.

Note: I am not a lawyer or legal expert, so if I have misread any of the statutory language, I hope someone will please step in to correct me.

The employer of teachers is responsible and accountable for their performance, just like I am responsible for those that work me.
We should not interfere with this direct relationship, but could provide consent and advice.

Raising the math standards on paper will accomplish very little and doesn’t address the core of the problem.
I believe and i am speaking as a father here, that our curriculum is too full already. An increase in quantity of learning doesn’t necessarily produce a better quality.
Many children already struggle with the very basics of math due to lack of time spent on them. This get’s progressively worse as children move on to higher grades. If you can’t recite time tables in your sleep how can you move on to algebra?

The comparison to the rest of the world when it comes to school performance is somewhat skewed. Germany for example provides more then one path in school to be successful.
Those who are not academically inclined have vocational options not available here. Children with learning disabilities are not measured against the same academic standard as regular students.

We tend to “push” all children through the same system and spend vast amounts of resources trying to bring everybody to the same level.
Not does this only skew our academic performance numbers, but in a way hold higher achievers.

I believe we need to get away from the “one size fits all” approach. Every child has different needs, skills or ambitions.

I think that our constitution is very clear on separation of church and state. “Faith based” issues make for a spirited discussion within certain contexts, and we should certainly encourage those discussions, but in the end we need to teach facts.

On multiple intelligences re: Peter’s comment on vocational school focus along with college bound prep ed…

http://tinyurl.com/69kjf8

Kevin Budig’s blog says

I am the angry white man.
Why? Because I am tired of all the pandering to special interests and the “all must be equal” crowd. Fine if you work hard, pay your dues and your fair share of the tax burden I will consider you an equal.

Read my post above #80 for more of what Kevin Budig’s blog says…

I asked: what are the other reasons you might favor home schooling or private school; how will you deal with immigrants who have children in need of schooling; if our taxes never go up, and school expenses do, what is your plan to provide quality education; and where would you make cuts, if any needed to be made?

I see Kevin is not going to answer my questions, Felicity.

BTW, did the News print Kevin’s profile re: school board candidate, yet? Was it demonstrative of his anger?

Holly: All of the candidate profiles are up on the Northfield News site, and there are candidate statements, and answers to questions submitted by citizens, on the Northfield.org Election Page. I also encourage you, and other LocallyGrown readers, to come to tonight’s school board candidate forum at 6:45 p.m. at Bridgewater Elementary School. Unfortunately, I think Mr. Budig is unable to attend tonight’s forum.

Had the pleasure to meet Rob Hardy ( and others) at the Bridgewater Elementary school.
Rob has a good grasp on the issues and is an overall nice guy.

The “education lobby” has spent nearly $40 million dollars in campaign donations. 70% of those are going to Democrats.

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=W04

The NEA has donated $ 1.5 millions to political campaigns 80% of it when to Democrats.

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.php?cycle=2008&ind=L1300

Non Partisan?
Even locally the NEA is very obvious in their choices……no I am not mad about the fact they din’t endorse, because I never expected it anyway.

Time for a couple of last minute questions. Candidates Budig, Hardy, Iverson, Maple, Quinnell & Millin; please, answer me these questions 3:

Over the past few years we have had a couple of boondoggles regarding the school district. The first being the Middle School. The taxpayers of Northfield were straddled with a $42 million levy, while I don’t doubt a Middle School was needed, Shakopee, in the same election, was able to pass a $25 million levy to build a comparable sized High School (and they had to buy land). What are your plans for making sure this type of wasteful spending does not continue?

The second that I am concerned with, is the signing of a teachers contract guaranteeing a 7% pay raise over 2 years. The problem I am specifically concerned with, was that this was committed to without underpinning the budget (similar to the recent hiring of ESL teachers – where it was reported in the NN that “we had to hire them, but we’re not sure how we’re going to pay for them”). Then when the state funding was not there, the school district was left short. What are your plans for ensuring that this type of fiscal irresponsibility does not continue (as it has until this past year)?

Given the current economic climate, many companies are freezing or even reducing salaries. With regards to Northfield, a vast majority of the school’s income comes from a taxes. With housing values down, and the local real estate market with it; what is your position likely to be when the teachers contract comes up for renewal, specifically regarding salary increases?

Guy: I think all of us would agree on the need for fiscal responsibility, and I believe that, whatever the composition of the new school board, it will exercise careful stewardship of the district’s resources. I certainly don’t see any major building projects being undertaken in the current climate.

I wasn’t involved in framing the levy for the new middle school, so I don’t have all of the information to explain the difference between Shakopee’s levy and Northfield’s. It’s often difficult to compare the financial situation of different school districts because of the disparity in the amount of state funding they receive. For example, Shakopee receives $1.8 million in annual compensatory revenue from the state; neighboring Prior Lake-Savage receives $270,000 a year. This has to do with levels of poverty in the district (numbers of students who receive free and reduced priced lunches). I suspect that each district looks at its own circumstances and tries to decide what it can afford. In the current economic climate, I’m sure that Northfield can afford less, and will have to make decisions based on that reality.

A 7% raise over two years translates to 3.5% a year. According to the Wall Street Journal, the average budgeted raise for all workers in 2008 is 3.8% and will be 3.7% for 2009. In September (the last month for which data is currently available), inflation was at about 4.9%. So, an annual raise of 3.5% doesn’t keep pace with inflation. If inflation remains this high, it would seem that, in effect, the contract guarantees a pay cut.

In general, though, I think it’s commonsense not to demand or to guarantee something it’s impossible to pay—or impossible to pay without significant cuts (including, in some cases, staffing cuts). I would hope that all parties would enter negotiations with common sense and with an appreciation of the economic realities.

At the same time, Northfield wants to attract the best teachers, and so has to offer competitive pay. We know that math and science education are crucial for America’s economic security, but there is a shortage of math and science teachers across the country. There needs to be an incentive for talented scientists and mathematicians to become teachers.

Clearly, some systemic changes need to made as well: for example, in the way in which the state funds education, and in a healthcare system that drives up the cost of benefit packages at an unsustainable rate.

We’re all in this current economic mess together, teachers and taxpayers, school board members and union negotiators. I don’t think any of the parties are well served by taking an adversarial position. We need to work hard to understand each other and to get through this together.

Thank you Rob & Peter.

One further question if you please (for all candidates):

What is your opinion on year around school?

Griff,
I’d appreciate clarification of what you’re saying here. What exactly do you consider non-partisan to mean? Is it enough if the parties don’t endorse or work for a candidate?

Or are you suggesting that people who have political beliefs that are generally compatible with either the DFL or IR should be considered less fit to serve on the School Board than those who don’t?

For example, I have called myself a Democrat since 2001. (I did so because I am generally left-of-center in my thinking, and because there is a strength in numbers that was required to defeat the [once?] highly organized and powerful Republican machine.) However, I have never attended a Democratic party meeting, paid any dues, or participated in any party activity beyond last spring’s caucus. About the extent of my affiliation with the party has been my self-description, and my gift of money to particular Democratic candidates. I’ve never cast a straight party ticket, and I’ll happily vote for a non-Democrat given the right candidate – especially in local politics.

Does my general philosophical affinity for the Democrats over the Republicans really make me less qualified to serve in local office? Should Ray Cox be looked at askance if he decided to run for a local office?

If so, then I’d just like to declare: I am no longer a Democrat.

That was easy.

In reference to comment # 107 regarding teacher negotiations.

(Again, I would have posted last night but I needed to check for clarity)

Salary and the salary schedule for teachers are topics that are woefully misunderstood. Who has the
advantage in a system with steps and lanes starting at a low salary with no increases after seventeen years into a 40 year career? Why are steps and lanes part of the system?

This system was put into place to ensure predictability in school budgets. Under the system of steps and lanes, Teacher’s trade a low starting salary for modest continual growth throughout ONLY the first half of their career. The “up side” is that a teacher knows they are going to receive an increase for their first 17 years. The “down side” is that you start at a low salary and end at a level that is low compared to our peers with similar education.

More specifically I have taught for 18 years, starting at $21,000 for my first year in 1990. Last year I received my last increase. I will retire at age 60+ at my current salary, with the exception of negotiated improvements to the schedule which have averaged about 2.5% over the last 18 years.

Guy also goes on to imply that teacher’s salaries should be frozen (comment #107). I would be all for that IF throughout the 90’s when everyone else was receiving up to double digit salary increases, my colleagues and I had received similar increases. Instead, during the greatest economic boom in U.S. history those of us who were teachers were getting 3% – 5% increases INCLUDING benefits. I didn’t hear anybody advocating for larger increases for education and educators then. If someone would sign a pledge to fund the school formula at the cost of living during our next economic crunch, I would trade that kind of stability for a few years of salary freeze in a heartbeat.

As far as negotiated improvements in the salary schedule that were mentioned (comment # 107), a few years ago the Northfield Education Association negotiated for a 1% salary increase. In the ten years that I have been involved with negotiations, the improvements on the salary schedule have been 1%-3%. Regardless of what you make in the middle of your career, the underlying fact is that the cost for a beginning teacher and the cost for every teacher in the second half of his or her career has gone up between one and three percent every year. Show me one other industry where the top and bottom salary have had that small of an increase since 1998? Show me another industry where a forty-three year old with eighteen years of experience is locked into 0%-3% increase for the next twenty years. So, yes we did negotiate for increases of salary AND BENEFITS at 3.5% for 2007-2008 and 3.5% for 2008-2009. NOTE: THIS WAS FOR SALARY AND BENEFITS!

However, our settlement was reached after the state had set funding for the biennium which means that the budget was in place and had been projected for the term of the contract and this settlement came after a 1% increase.

In short, the members of the Northfield Education Association are not the enemy. Although I appreciate the debate, it is difficult sometimes to hear community members characterize my colleagues and myself as part of the problem. The world is much more dynamic than these arguments would suggest and education is too important to our common existence to fall into simplistic arguments for complex subjects.

Those are great stats but I don’t see how that is relevant to the Northfield School Board election.

Ray,

Sorry I almost forgot this.

http://educationvotes.nea.org/blog/target-races.php

Note that in the targeted races the NEA does not support a single Republican. Non partisan???

Ray C: I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear. My point was that to outsiders, whose primary source of information is the Northfield News, the school board & superintendent were being fiscally irresponsible, and I wanted to know their opinion.

I apologize if you felt I was attacking the teachers, the teachers are the foot soldiers in this battle and deserve our support in doing their jobs.

My father always said that every job had it’s perks, and I find that more true today than ever before. I work for a ‘pay for performance’ company. I do not enjoy any great amount of job security, but I do enjoy a high op tempo (something I personally enjoy), and a high salary. The biggest perk a civil servant has is job security. In general when folks enter civil service it’s for some altruistic personal belief, or maybe it’s just the security blanket – but my point is you traded your rights to a high salary when you did so of your owe free will. So I don’t have much sympathy, sorry.

In every job there are high performers and low performers. The root of most evil are the unions (NEA, UAW, PSEA, PBA, etc) – the concept is sound, the implementation is poor. The members of the unions are only at fault that they do not hold their union representatives accountable for their actions. Unions protect the low performing employees (in this case through tenure) and as such, bring down the whole. As was mentioned before – no one should be guaranteed a raise of COLA allotment. All increases should be based upon merit and tangible results.

There I go again, trying to boil the ocean. Good night folks, and to the candidates, good luck tomorrow.

Unions are necessary and have their rightful place, and yes a lot of perks we have today we wouldn’t have if it wasn’t for unions.

However it seems to me that in the past the unions are more concerned protecting the non performers and playing politics then fight for better working conditions.
Some time ago I lived in Pittsburgh which is a heavy union town. Some of the rules put in place by them where absurd an unproductive.
I got time slipped once for carrying a container from one place to another. I was told that this was ” the runners job” HUH?
These and other rules like it are what makes union lose their cloud.

P.S. to comment #124: That’s what an attempt at humor sounds like at 1:00 in the morning after too many beers at Griff’s party.

Sincere congratulations to Jeff, Diane, Ellen and Anne!

Hear, hear! Rob, I really hope you’ll try again next time.